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I was in the UAW for about 6 six years. My dad was a Teamster for about 30 years. My feelings on unions are mixed — there are pluses and minuses — but they're m

I was in the UAW for about 6 six years. My dad was a Teamster for about 30 years. My feelings on unions are mixed — there are pluses and minuses — but they're mine. What I hear on HN a lot of the time is a naive belief that unions are an unalloyed good, and I'm not sure where that comes from. I won't accuse anybody of being a shill, I just think they're getting their information secondhand and don't fully appreciate the tradeoffs of the non-theoretical world.

stjohnswarts 5y ago
I'm in a similar position. I think given the propensity for criminal organizations to "dabble" I think all unions should have federal oversight just like corporations (which don't have enough) and that there should be very transparent finances that are open to the Feds and to the union members themselves to prevent criminal connections. Also I have seen unions go overboard with "this is my job and will be my cousin Vinnie's when I retire next year". So nepotism/boys_club issues can easily form as well, at least in the 3 unions or so I have experience with through family members. I personally have never been in a union, but I can see pluses and minuses on both sides that can be at least under some amount of control with 3rd party auditors, whether that's governmental or via transparency from union members.
baq 5y ago
unions nowadays should be something like HR, but for employee benefit instead of the company. basically something that HR needs to talk to to get things done instead of just doing stupid things. what unions really are often is something that primarily serves a select few members of the union, which is worse than not having a union at all.
jonwithoutanh 5y ago
> What I hear on HN a lot of the time is a naive belief that unions are an unalloyed good Where do you read this? It seems to me that every thread about unions is filled with former union members that dislike unions but don't back up their dislike with any information. I was part of Teamsters Canada for 10 years. I made $25/hr where similar positions at other companies were for $10-$12/hr. Overtime I worked was paid, always, that's literally never happened in software. If we were understaffed, management had to call in extra employees from a staffing firm to bring us to a minimum headcount, no working understaffed. We had guaranteed, mandatory to take, paid time off. When the managers were being idiots, we could tell them such without fear of being fired instantly, the union would back us when the managers were being idiots. Retirement benefits. That's not to say it was all good though. The union never listened to our shops complaints. They didn't step in for months when things were terribly mismanaged. There was visible grifting by the leadership of the union. They could have done a better job. That said, without the union, I would have made maybe 50% of the money I did make, the conditions would have been worse, and the chances of fixing things in the workplace would have been reduced.

stjohnswarts 5y ago

I'm in a similar position. I think given the propensity for criminal organizations to "dabble" I think all unions should have federal oversight just like corporations (which don't have enough) and that there should be very transparent finances that are open to the Feds and to the union members themselves to prevent criminal connections. Also I have seen unions go overboard with "this is my job and will be my cousin Vinnie's when I retire next year". So nepotism/boys_club issues can easily form as well, at least in the 3 unions or so I have experience with through family members. I personally have never been in a union, but I can see pluses and minuses on both sides that can be at least under some amount of control with 3rd party auditors, whether that's governmental or via transparency from union members.

baq 5y ago

unions nowadays should be something like HR, but for employee benefit instead of the company. basically something that HR needs to talk to to get things done instead of just doing stupid things. what unions really are often is something that primarily serves a select few members of the union, which is worse than not having a union at all.

jonwithoutanh 5y ago

> What I hear on HN a lot of the time is a naive belief that unions are an unalloyed good Where do you read this? It seems to me that every thread about unions is filled with former union members that dislike unions but don't back up their dislike with any information. I was part of Teamsters Canada for 10 years. I made $25/hr where similar positions at other companies were for $10-$12/hr. Overtime I worked was paid, always, that's literally never happened in software. If we were understaffed, management had to call in extra employees from a staffing firm to bring us to a minimum headcount, no working understaffed. We had guaranteed, mandatory to take, paid time off. When the managers were being idiots, we could tell them such without fear of being fired instantly, the union would back us when the managers were being idiots. Retirement benefits. That's not to say it was all good though. The union never listened to our shops complaints. They didn't step in for months when things were terribly mismanaged. There was visible grifting by the leadership of the union. They could have done a better job. That said, without the union, I would have made maybe 50% of the money I did make, the conditions would have been worse, and the chances of fixing things in the workplace would have been reduced.