3 ms·

> This sounds similar to what is going on in Germany. We also have reports of systematic hospizalization where ambulant treatment would be possible and recommen

> This sounds similar to what is going on in Germany. We also have reports of systematic hospizalization where ambulant treatment would be possible and recommended. Intubations which aren't required and actually harmful and traumatizing. Same reason - financial incentives. Never heard of that in any of a variety of news sources I consume, without a credible source I heavily doubt it. Instead it seems like doctors currently urge people to take precaution (like getting vaccinated) to keep them away from hospital because of the work load. > Recently went to the doc for a normal cold. Was standing in a small unventilated corridor for half an hour with several coughing people. A lot of doctors now offer visits via video chat, if you need a sick leave for work it's often enough just to call the doctor and they send you the papers. True, there are problems with resistant bugs in hospitals and there are problems with testing facilities. The 'ashamed, stupefied and angry' feeling in Germany however can't be generalized like that: Some feel like they're living in a dictatorship because they have to wear a mask, some are angry because of the unclear and reactionary handling of the pandemic on a political level, some don't believe in science but follow alternative medicine or just think all of it is a big hoax, and there probably many more reasons people have. Overall, Germany still has a pretty good record on keeping people alive while never using really hard measures. What we really could use though is a more civil communication.

2-718-281-828 5y ago
https://www1.wdr.de/daserste/monitor/sendungen/gefaehrliche-intubation-100.html https://www1.wdr.de/daserste/monitor/sendungen/gefaehrliche-... https://www.welt.de/politik/deutschland/article207311157/Corona-Mit-kuenstlicher-Beatmung-wird-richtig-viel-Geld-gemacht.html https://www.welt.de/politik/deutschland/article207311157/Cor... also check interviews of Prof. Klaus Stöhr - he mentions that regularly. > A lot of doctors now offer visits via video chat, if you need a sick leave for work it's often enough just to call the doctor and they send you the papers. they need my physical HI card every quarter ... > Overall, Germany still has a pretty good record on keeping people alive while never using really hard measures. What we really could use though is a more civil communication. Deaths per infections is relatively high compared to other EU countries. Again, check Prof. Stöhr interviews.
- tonyjstark 5y ago
  The WDR link discusses different opinions on intubation as well as the fincial incentives. It even mentions that guidelines got adjusted which led to less invasive care. The second link is very 'Welt'-typical, at first using almost tabloid language only to then not delivering on the promise. The interviewee goes into the topic of hospitals having the wrong financial incentives for optimizing the duration of intubation but doesn't accuse a systemic wrong-doing or patient harming. Fair enough, the system is not perfect but it's far from "systematic hospitalization where ambulant treatment would be possible and recommended". Not sure about Prof. Stöhr, I read some of his criticism on how the pandemic is handled regarding schools, the idea of a mandatory vaccine and things like country wide measures vs. more local adjusted measures. I didn't hear him saying there is a _systemic_ problem of wrongly administered intensive care just to make money.
bonzini 5y ago
> > We also have reports of systematic hospizalization where ambulant treatment would be possible and recommended. Intubations which aren't required and actually harmful > Never heard of that in any of a variety of news sources I consume, And I heard exactly the same about Italy from news sources that no one in their right mind would trust, which actually corroborates your point.

2-718-281-828 5y ago

https://www1.wdr.de/daserste/monitor/sendungen/gefaehrliche-intubation-100.html https://www1.wdr.de/daserste/monitor/sendungen/gefaehrliche-... https://www.welt.de/politik/deutschland/article207311157/Corona-Mit-kuenstlicher-Beatmung-wird-richtig-viel-Geld-gemacht.html https://www.welt.de/politik/deutschland/article207311157/Cor... also check interviews of Prof. Klaus Stöhr - he mentions that regularly. > A lot of doctors now offer visits via video chat, if you need a sick leave for work it's often enough just to call the doctor and they send you the papers. they need my physical HI card every quarter ... > Overall, Germany still has a pretty good record on keeping people alive while never using really hard measures. What we really could use though is a more civil communication. Deaths per infections is relatively high compared to other EU countries. Again, check Prof. Stöhr interviews.

tonyjstark 5y ago
The WDR link discusses different opinions on intubation as well as the fincial incentives. It even mentions that guidelines got adjusted which led to less invasive care. The second link is very 'Welt'-typical, at first using almost tabloid language only to then not delivering on the promise. The interviewee goes into the topic of hospitals having the wrong financial incentives for optimizing the duration of intubation but doesn't accuse a systemic wrong-doing or patient harming. Fair enough, the system is not perfect but it's far from "systematic hospitalization where ambulant treatment would be possible and recommended". Not sure about Prof. Stöhr, I read some of his criticism on how the pandemic is handled regarding schools, the idea of a mandatory vaccine and things like country wide measures vs. more local adjusted measures. I didn't hear him saying there is a _systemic_ problem of wrongly administered intensive care just to make money.

bonzini 5y ago

> > We also have reports of systematic hospizalization where ambulant treatment would be possible and recommended. Intubations which aren't required and actually harmful > Never heard of that in any of a variety of news sources I consume, And I heard exactly the same about Italy from news sources that no one in their right mind would trust, which actually corroborates your point.