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I also took a while to get used to the typing in Crystal but once you do get it, it's worth the effort IMO. I occasionally still fire up Ruby but if I have anyt

I also took a while to get used to the typing in Crystal but once you do get it, it's worth the effort IMO. I occasionally still fire up Ruby but if I have anything more to do than a quick command-line command, I use Crystal, so many less problems.

pantulis 5y ago
Crystal was overall a pleasant experience, which I cannot say for Rust. Although it was probably my fault: 1) for being "rusty" as a programmer myself, and 2) having zero experience with Rust. I want to believe that once you get over the learning curve in Rust development speed becomes much higher. Surprisingly, Crystal seems to be much leaner in runtime size than Rust, with similar performance (although the use case is so simple that even good old Ruby is fast enough). But then again, I feel you cannot beat Ruby in terms of dev productivity.
- m12k 5y ago
  I've heard it described that Rust allows you to write programs in a specific way. If you try to write them in any other way, you're going to have a very, very bad time, and fight the borrow checker every step of the way. But if you embrace that way of writing programs, it makes it pretty easy, you get really good error messages, and as a cherry on top your program will be provably sound in a way pretty much no other language can guarantee. So it all comes down to whether you're interested in learning that specific way of structuring programs.
  - pantulis 5y ago
    That's true, but then it is not "allowing" or "enabling" me, it is "forcing" me to do it that way. Of course, the Rust compiler is catching a gazillion bugs beforehand, so this is cool: you finally feel like your program will have no bugs once you manage to compile it. Error management through Option values, the borrowing checker... they are cool technologies for a C-like language, but they are not palatable at the beginning (maybe they are an acquired taste like beer?). I am tempted to stretch it a little bit more and see how productive I can become writing Rust code, but also not so sure about the effort.
  - syspec 5y ago
    The real cherry on top is that you can put "written in Rust. Modern. Fast" on your project description.
- brigandish 5y ago
  I also gave Rust a go (last year? Hard to keep track since the pandemic) but the book I was using was geared to C programmers so I quickly lost interest, though I would like to understand what the hype is about. I think the bit about productivity may certainly be true if you have to use libraries, obviously Ruby has many more available now (maybe forever), but I certainly feel more productive in Crystal now, maybe for things other than the language itself, admittedly. For example, producing a binary makes installation a breeze, and I don't worry about which version I'm running as I point the right compiler at the code; no Bundler now, library installs are sane (at last!); and socially I find the lack of "rockstars" in the main team refreshing, I have no fear of being dissed or dismissed, it makes contributing easier.
Lio 5y ago
I think I'd be more interested in Crystal if it was easier to integrate into existing ruby code bases via something like the FFI. As it is from Ruby 3.0 we have built in optional static typing and with interesting projects like Sorbet Compiler[1] we have the option to statically compile making use of that. It's still WIP I believe but it's giving ruby devs some cool options. 1. https://sorbet.org/blog/2021/07/30/open-sourcing-sorbet-compiler https://sorbet.org/blog/2021/07/30/open-sourcing-sorbet-comp...
- brigandish 5y ago
  > I think I'd be more interested in Crystal if it was easier to integrate into existing ruby code bases via something like the FFI. That would be very nice, I agree, though I've always found the FFI interface an under-documented pain so I'd probably end up just using Crystal or using some other way to interoperate, like pipes or HTTP. On Sorbet, I just hate the look of it. I know it's subjective (possibly that's Ruby's own fault for being so delightful to look at, I'm spoiled!) but I can't abide the syntax. Crystal's is much nicer, and has some extra sugar sprinkled on top for the moments you're most likely to be using it (like external names in method signatures[1] or providing init args) that win out for me. Sorry about the formatting, I can't work out HN's markdown :/ # Ruby # from the Sorbet intro extend T::Sig sig {params(name: String).returns(Integer)} def main(name) puts "Hello, #{name}!" name.length end # Crystal def main(name : String) : Int puts "Hello, #{name}!" name.size end puts main "you" That's so much nicer to my eyes, and you don't need most of it as it will be inferred. Initialisation is nicer, too, (unless Ruby has been updated in this regard too? As I wrote, I use it much less now) # Crystal class A getter name : String def initialize(*, @name); end end a = A.new name: "Hacker News" puts a.name or without the getter and keyword arg: # Crystal class A getter name def initialize(@name : String); end end a = A.new "Hacker News" puts a.name Whatever suits. # Crystal # Example of external names def increment(value, by) # OK, but reads odd value + by end def increment(value : Int, by amount : Int) : Int # Better value + amount end puts increment 1, 2 but those types are easily inferred so it's actually: # Crystal def increment(value, by amount) # Even better value + amount end I could go on because now I'm comfortable with it, it looks much better. I feel the way moving from Perl and C# to Ruby felt. [1] https://crystal-lang.org/reference/1.3/syntax_and_semantics/default_values_named_arguments_splats_tuples_and_overloading.html#external-names https://crystal-lang.org/reference/1.3/syntax_and_semantics/... Edit: formatting, of course
sam0x17 5y ago
Crystal is also my go-to for writing a quick script to do something.
- pelasaco 5y ago
  The "you should be using Crystal" post is mandatory in any ruby thread. If everyone saying "yes, Crystal" were actually using Crystal, then: a) they would see how far from "better ruby" is Crystal and b) The Crystal community would be huge.
  - brigandish 5y ago
    > they would see how far from "better ruby" is Crystal Are you accusing us both of lying? How strange.
    - pelasaco 5y ago
      would you mind to post your github/gitlab repositories with your Crystal projects? Looking here I couldn't find anyone https://github.com/yb66?tab=repositories&q=&type=source&language=crystal&sort= https://github.com/yb66?tab=repositories&q=&type=source&lang...
      - brigandish 5y ago
        So you are accusing me of lying, how lovely of you! Let's see if your accusations can hold up to Socratic questioning: - If I haven't open sourced any Crystal projects does that mean I haven't written any? - I have published several Ruby gems[0], when was the last commit or version bump for any of them? You're more interested that I am, tell me. I really should archive them, thanks for reminding me. - You missed off my Gitlab, what was the last public contribution I made there? (hint[1]) - What's the last gem I created? I reckon it's this one that I didn't publish[2] because the Rack team changed a public API in such a dumb way that I'd have to rewrite it and then mucked me around with a pull request to Rack that one of the core team copy and pasted in as their own commit while arguing against the pull. Weird, but lovely people, like yourself. Meanwhile, your cookies lack security. Yes, I want to continue working within this language and ecosystem… Does the sarcasm come through in my writing? - Why did you not check the Crystal repo?[3][4] Github has a search facility. Put my username in, and pick `commits` on the left. - How did you miss the forks of Docopt.cr[5] and Fancyline[6]? They're right there in my public activity log. Did you not see the merges into Fancyline of my code?[7] I have more to give, just trying to find the time. - Did you not see forks with commits such as xattr.cr[8], xdg.cr[9], and Pope.cr[10] - You didn't see I'd provided a project[11] for Mint so it can be run easier with Docker Compose? - Aside from that I have a whole host of changes to migrate.cr[12] still to push up. You can't know that but you might've guessed that I was at least working with that - and all the other forks of Crystal projects I have. That is all public and not the half of the Crystal code I look at. Should I expect an apology? If you were too cowardly to be straightforward with your accusations then I find it stretches credulity far beyond breaking that you could be big enough to provide one. We'll see, like you, I've been very wrong about people in the past. [0] https://rubygems.org/profiles/yb66 https://rubygems.org/profiles/yb66 [1] https://gitlab.com/arctic-fox/spectator/-/merge_requests/34 https://gitlab.com/arctic-fox/spectator/-/merge_requests/34 [2] https://gitlab.com/yb66/aes-gcm https://gitlab.com/yb66/aes-gcm [3] https://github.com/crystal-lang/crystal/pull/11201 https://github.com/crystal-lang/crystal/pull/11201 [4] https://github.com/crystal-lang/crystal/blob/1.1.0/CHANGELOG.md#files https://github.com/crystal-lang/crystal/blob/1.1.0/CHANGELOG... [5] https://github.com/yb66/docopt.cr https://github.com/yb66/docopt.cr [6] https://github.com/yb66/fancyline https://github.com/yb66/fancyline [7] https://github.com/Papierkorb/fancyline/pulls?q=is%3Apr+yb66 https://github.com/Papierkorb/fancyline/pulls?q=is%3Apr+yb66 [8] https://github.com/ettomatic/xattr/pulls https://github.com/ettomatic/xattr/pulls [9] https://github.com/dscottboggs/xdg.cr/pull/1 https://github.com/dscottboggs/xdg.cr/pull/1 [10] https://github.com/yb66/pope.cr/commits/master https://github.com/yb66/pope.cr/commits/master [11] https://github.com/yb66/Mint-Docker-Compose https://github.com/yb66/Mint-Docker-Compose [12] https://github.com/yb66/migrate.cr https://github.com/yb66/migrate.cr

pantulis 5y ago

Crystal was overall a pleasant experience, which I cannot say for Rust. Although it was probably my fault: 1) for being "rusty" as a programmer myself, and 2) having zero experience with Rust. I want to believe that once you get over the learning curve in Rust development speed becomes much higher. Surprisingly, Crystal seems to be much leaner in runtime size than Rust, with similar performance (although the use case is so simple that even good old Ruby is fast enough). But then again, I feel you cannot beat Ruby in terms of dev productivity.

m12k 5y ago
I've heard it described that Rust allows you to write programs in a specific way. If you try to write them in any other way, you're going to have a very, very bad time, and fight the borrow checker every step of the way. But if you embrace that way of writing programs, it makes it pretty easy, you get really good error messages, and as a cherry on top your program will be provably sound in a way pretty much no other language can guarantee. So it all comes down to whether you're interested in learning that specific way of structuring programs.
- pantulis 5y ago
  That's true, but then it is not "allowing" or "enabling" me, it is "forcing" me to do it that way. Of course, the Rust compiler is catching a gazillion bugs beforehand, so this is cool: you finally feel like your program will have no bugs once you manage to compile it. Error management through Option values, the borrowing checker... they are cool technologies for a C-like language, but they are not palatable at the beginning (maybe they are an acquired taste like beer?). I am tempted to stretch it a little bit more and see how productive I can become writing Rust code, but also not so sure about the effort.
- syspec 5y ago
  The real cherry on top is that you can put "written in Rust. Modern. Fast" on your project description.
brigandish 5y ago
I also gave Rust a go (last year? Hard to keep track since the pandemic) but the book I was using was geared to C programmers so I quickly lost interest, though I would like to understand what the hype is about. I think the bit about productivity may certainly be true if you have to use libraries, obviously Ruby has many more available now (maybe forever), but I certainly feel more productive in Crystal now, maybe for things other than the language itself, admittedly. For example, producing a binary makes installation a breeze, and I don't worry about which version I'm running as I point the right compiler at the code; no Bundler now, library installs are sane (at last!); and socially I find the lack of "rockstars" in the main team refreshing, I have no fear of being dissed or dismissed, it makes contributing easier.

Lio 5y ago

I think I'd be more interested in Crystal if it was easier to integrate into existing ruby code bases via something like the FFI. As it is from Ruby 3.0 we have built in optional static typing and with interesting projects like Sorbet Compiler[1] we have the option to statically compile making use of that. It's still WIP I believe but it's giving ruby devs some cool options. 1. https://sorbet.org/blog/2021/07/30/open-sourcing-sorbet-compiler https://sorbet.org/blog/2021/07/30/open-sourcing-sorbet-comp...

brigandish 5y ago
> I think I'd be more interested in Crystal if it was easier to integrate into existing ruby code bases via something like the FFI. That would be very nice, I agree, though I've always found the FFI interface an under-documented pain so I'd probably end up just using Crystal or using some other way to interoperate, like pipes or HTTP. On Sorbet, I just hate the look of it. I know it's subjective (possibly that's Ruby's own fault for being so delightful to look at, I'm spoiled!) but I can't abide the syntax. Crystal's is much nicer, and has some extra sugar sprinkled on top for the moments you're most likely to be using it (like external names in method signatures[1] or providing init args) that win out for me. Sorry about the formatting, I can't work out HN's markdown :/ # Ruby # from the Sorbet intro extend T::Sig sig {params(name: String).returns(Integer)} def main(name) puts "Hello, #{name}!" name.length end # Crystal def main(name : String) : Int puts "Hello, #{name}!" name.size end puts main "you" That's so much nicer to my eyes, and you don't need most of it as it will be inferred. Initialisation is nicer, too, (unless Ruby has been updated in this regard too? As I wrote, I use it much less now) # Crystal class A getter name : String def initialize(*, @name); end end a = A.new name: "Hacker News" puts a.name or without the getter and keyword arg: # Crystal class A getter name def initialize(@name : String); end end a = A.new "Hacker News" puts a.name Whatever suits. # Crystal # Example of external names def increment(value, by) # OK, but reads odd value + by end def increment(value : Int, by amount : Int) : Int # Better value + amount end puts increment 1, 2 but those types are easily inferred so it's actually: # Crystal def increment(value, by amount) # Even better value + amount end I could go on because now I'm comfortable with it, it looks much better. I feel the way moving from Perl and C# to Ruby felt. [1] https://crystal-lang.org/reference/1.3/syntax_and_semantics/default_values_named_arguments_splats_tuples_and_overloading.html#external-names https://crystal-lang.org/reference/1.3/syntax_and_semantics/... Edit: formatting, of course

sam0x17 5y ago

Crystal is also my go-to for writing a quick script to do something.

pelasaco 5y ago
The "you should be using Crystal" post is mandatory in any ruby thread. If everyone saying "yes, Crystal" were actually using Crystal, then: a) they would see how far from "better ruby" is Crystal and b) The Crystal community would be huge.
- brigandish 5y ago
  > they would see how far from "better ruby" is Crystal Are you accusing us both of lying? How strange.
  - pelasaco 5y ago
    would you mind to post your github/gitlab repositories with your Crystal projects? Looking here I couldn't find anyone https://github.com/yb66?tab=repositories&q=&type=source&language=crystal&sort= https://github.com/yb66?tab=repositories&q=&type=source&lang...
    - brigandish 5y ago
      So you are accusing me of lying, how lovely of you! Let's see if your accusations can hold up to Socratic questioning: - If I haven't open sourced any Crystal projects does that mean I haven't written any? - I have published several Ruby gems[0], when was the last commit or version bump for any of them? You're more interested that I am, tell me. I really should archive them, thanks for reminding me. - You missed off my Gitlab, what was the last public contribution I made there? (hint[1]) - What's the last gem I created? I reckon it's this one that I didn't publish[2] because the Rack team changed a public API in such a dumb way that I'd have to rewrite it and then mucked me around with a pull request to Rack that one of the core team copy and pasted in as their own commit while arguing against the pull. Weird, but lovely people, like yourself. Meanwhile, your cookies lack security. Yes, I want to continue working within this language and ecosystem… Does the sarcasm come through in my writing? - Why did you not check the Crystal repo?[3][4] Github has a search facility. Put my username in, and pick `commits` on the left. - How did you miss the forks of Docopt.cr[5] and Fancyline[6]? They're right there in my public activity log. Did you not see the merges into Fancyline of my code?[7] I have more to give, just trying to find the time. - Did you not see forks with commits such as xattr.cr[8], xdg.cr[9], and Pope.cr[10] - You didn't see I'd provided a project[11] for Mint so it can be run easier with Docker Compose? - Aside from that I have a whole host of changes to migrate.cr[12] still to push up. You can't know that but you might've guessed that I was at least working with that - and all the other forks of Crystal projects I have. That is all public and not the half of the Crystal code I look at. Should I expect an apology? If you were too cowardly to be straightforward with your accusations then I find it stretches credulity far beyond breaking that you could be big enough to provide one. We'll see, like you, I've been very wrong about people in the past. [0] https://rubygems.org/profiles/yb66 https://rubygems.org/profiles/yb66 [1] https://gitlab.com/arctic-fox/spectator/-/merge_requests/34 https://gitlab.com/arctic-fox/spectator/-/merge_requests/34 [2] https://gitlab.com/yb66/aes-gcm https://gitlab.com/yb66/aes-gcm [3] https://github.com/crystal-lang/crystal/pull/11201 https://github.com/crystal-lang/crystal/pull/11201 [4] https://github.com/crystal-lang/crystal/blob/1.1.0/CHANGELOG.md#files https://github.com/crystal-lang/crystal/blob/1.1.0/CHANGELOG... [5] https://github.com/yb66/docopt.cr https://github.com/yb66/docopt.cr [6] https://github.com/yb66/fancyline https://github.com/yb66/fancyline [7] https://github.com/Papierkorb/fancyline/pulls?q=is%3Apr+yb66 https://github.com/Papierkorb/fancyline/pulls?q=is%3Apr+yb66 [8] https://github.com/ettomatic/xattr/pulls https://github.com/ettomatic/xattr/pulls [9] https://github.com/dscottboggs/xdg.cr/pull/1 https://github.com/dscottboggs/xdg.cr/pull/1 [10] https://github.com/yb66/pope.cr/commits/master https://github.com/yb66/pope.cr/commits/master [11] https://github.com/yb66/Mint-Docker-Compose https://github.com/yb66/Mint-Docker-Compose [12] https://github.com/yb66/migrate.cr https://github.com/yb66/migrate.cr