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I'm Fred. I've always been Fred. I wonder at times whether this has been more helpful or harmful to my career. As Fred, I've rarely hesitated to speak my min

by nhashem 15y ago

I'm Fred. I've always been Fred. I wonder at times whether this has been more helpful or harmful to my career. As Fred, I've rarely hesitated to speak my mind, and so I've gotten ideas pushed forward that would have definitely been DOA if I hadn't been so outspoken about them. That being said, I've been so abrasively outspoken at times I've seen former peers with just as outspoken but not so confrontational communication styles advance far beyond where I am now. I suppose my gut evaluation is I'm further along than if I had kept my mouth shut, but not as far as if I had been able to effectively communicated my positions (or known when to withhold communication entirely) -- then again, doesn't that apply to pretty much everyone? Rands juxtaposes each of his points with "Why Fred Hates It," deftly countering them with reasonable and logical arguments that make Fred seem like an anti-team player cancer. And then he ties it all together by saying Fred is essentially a product of frustration because no matter how committed his company seems to be to solving the big picture issues that have been painfully obvious to him for months/years, if the company doesn't actually enable solutions, then all the off-sites are pointless. In recent years I've mellowed out, moving more to a "Jim from The Office" attitude (Loser Jim, Not Sociopath Jim[1]) where I just smirk and go through the motions for things like off-sites, and figure any actual production that results in any long-term company improvement is a nice bonus, not an expectation. But in the end, we all want to be startup founders because it's a lot easier to turn dreams into action at our own small company than to figure out how to do it at someone else's larger company. [1] http://www.ribbonfarm.com/2009/10/07/the-gervais-principle-or-the-office-according-to-the-office/ http://www.ribbonfarm.com/2009/10/07/the-gervais-principle-o...

rands 15y ago
I finally created a HackerNews account just to say how much I love this comment. Hopefully, the piece doesn't come off as anti-Fred. I'm a huge Fred fan.
ebiester 15y ago
The question is, do you want to move up? If someone wants to move up within the organization, this is a quick reading list. Getting to Yes -- If you only have a chance to read one, read this. It is about how to effectively collaborate toward a solution, and it works in functional work environments. It will be around in a big enough used bookstore. How to Win Friends and Influence People -- Another oldie but goodie. It's a quick skim, and it's in every used bookstore. It has influenced interpersonal communication in the corporate world for nearly a century, and most people are taking their cues from this book. The Personal MBA: Master the Art of Business -- It's a condensation of many of the terms in business, and a reflection of the current corporate zeitgeist. Then, read two top selling business books a year. They're usually quick reads, and you want to speak the same language as the people reading these books. How does this help? By speaking the same language as the people making decisions, you are perceived as "one of them." This gives a common bond, and they perceive you as more likely to "understand business." By participating in collaborative conflict management, you are perceived to be a "team player." You can make the same good decisions without a confrontational work environment if all parties are speaking the same language. And all of these will help you run your own company, because you will be talking to other businessmen who are reading these books. They will trust you more if they perceive you as "one of them," and you will be able to describe how your product produces a return on investment in their language.
- jrockway 15y ago
  What's funny about these books is that none of them tell you how to act like you didn't just read these books. Personally, I find the tells so obvious that I can't even interact with people that are following this advice. It's like talking to Eliza. Anyway, if you want to win friends and influence windbags with no technical knowledge, read these books. If you want to win friends and influence people that know how to program, try programming more.
  - ebiester 15y ago
    Many of those windbags are your potential customers. :) When you are doing customer development in a B2B startup, for example, you should speak the client's language. In a consultancy role, you should be able to speak to both programmers and management. It is not duplicitous to speak a different language and use different cultural cues when speaking to programmers than when speaking to non-programmers. Learning the basic customs and language of business is a start, when we speak of the original poster's position that others were promoted above him despite technical skill. "What's funny about these books is that none of them tell you how to act like you didn't just read these books. Personally, I find the tells so obvious that I can't even interact with people that are following this advice. It's like talking to Eliza." It takes time and practice to develop fluency. Perhaps it is unfair to speak of a couple of books as a "magic bullet," but it's a decent start. That said, I do not suggest that these strategies should be used with other programmers necessarily. But strategies of facilitation (if I may delve into organizational communication for a bit) can help in many situations. I've seen inferior ideas pushed through because someone was more aggressive in argumentation, not because the idea was superior technically. I've seen developers ignored because they had a softer voice. (I've seen developers ignored because they were women, tangentally.) Collaborative conflict management models have their place, particularly in larger organizations where departments have cross-purposes.
  - pnathan 15y ago
    If you want to win friends and influence people that know how to program, try programming more. But you have to deal with & influence people that aren't programmers.

by nhashem 15y ago

rands 15y ago

I finally created a HackerNews account just to say how much I love this comment. Hopefully, the piece doesn't come off as anti-Fred. I'm a huge Fred fan.

ebiester 15y ago

The question is, do you want to move up? If someone wants to move up within the organization, this is a quick reading list. Getting to Yes -- If you only have a chance to read one, read this. It is about how to effectively collaborate toward a solution, and it works in functional work environments. It will be around in a big enough used bookstore. How to Win Friends and Influence People -- Another oldie but goodie. It's a quick skim, and it's in every used bookstore. It has influenced interpersonal communication in the corporate world for nearly a century, and most people are taking their cues from this book. The Personal MBA: Master the Art of Business -- It's a condensation of many of the terms in business, and a reflection of the current corporate zeitgeist. Then, read two top selling business books a year. They're usually quick reads, and you want to speak the same language as the people reading these books. How does this help? By speaking the same language as the people making decisions, you are perceived as "one of them." This gives a common bond, and they perceive you as more likely to "understand business." By participating in collaborative conflict management, you are perceived to be a "team player." You can make the same good decisions without a confrontational work environment if all parties are speaking the same language. And all of these will help you run your own company, because you will be talking to other businessmen who are reading these books. They will trust you more if they perceive you as "one of them," and you will be able to describe how your product produces a return on investment in their language.

jrockway 15y ago
What's funny about these books is that none of them tell you how to act like you didn't just read these books. Personally, I find the tells so obvious that I can't even interact with people that are following this advice. It's like talking to Eliza. Anyway, if you want to win friends and influence windbags with no technical knowledge, read these books. If you want to win friends and influence people that know how to program, try programming more.
- ebiester 15y ago
  Many of those windbags are your potential customers. :) When you are doing customer development in a B2B startup, for example, you should speak the client's language. In a consultancy role, you should be able to speak to both programmers and management. It is not duplicitous to speak a different language and use different cultural cues when speaking to programmers than when speaking to non-programmers. Learning the basic customs and language of business is a start, when we speak of the original poster's position that others were promoted above him despite technical skill. "What's funny about these books is that none of them tell you how to act like you didn't just read these books. Personally, I find the tells so obvious that I can't even interact with people that are following this advice. It's like talking to Eliza." It takes time and practice to develop fluency. Perhaps it is unfair to speak of a couple of books as a "magic bullet," but it's a decent start. That said, I do not suggest that these strategies should be used with other programmers necessarily. But strategies of facilitation (if I may delve into organizational communication for a bit) can help in many situations. I've seen inferior ideas pushed through because someone was more aggressive in argumentation, not because the idea was superior technically. I've seen developers ignored because they had a softer voice. (I've seen developers ignored because they were women, tangentally.) Collaborative conflict management models have their place, particularly in larger organizations where departments have cross-purposes.
- pnathan 15y ago
  If you want to win friends and influence people that know how to program, try programming more. But you have to deal with & influence people that aren't programmers.