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I completely disagree with this, programming is a fundamental skill in a variety of careers and can be used as a tool to teach how to think. It isn't an either

I completely disagree with this, programming is a fundamental skill in a variety of careers and can be used as a tool to teach how to think. It isn't an either-or proposition, incorporating programming exercises into any science oriented class can not only be illustrative, it like any sort of hands on lab does teach students to think like a scientist and helps to create a more realistic microcosm of how science is actually done these days, with programming forming a bridge between theory and experiment and heavily relied on in analysis.

pointyhat 15y ago
It's fundamental in possibly less than 5% of careers. Don't inflate it to something it isn't.
mibbit 15y ago
List 10 distinct careers where programming is a fundamental skill.
- dpritchett 15y ago
  Pretty much anywhere people use Excel. Any job where people use spreadsheets and their output is quantified and measured against their peers is ripe for automation by enterprising individuals. Why not be the fastest, most accurate analyst on your team? From pg: "To get rich you need to get yourself in a situation with two things, measurement and leverage. You need to be in a position where your performance can be measured, or there is no way to get paid more by doing more. And you have to have leverage, in the sense that the decisions you make have a big effect." And also from Zed Shaw: "Programming as a profession is only moderately interesting. It can be a good job, but you could make about the same money and be happier running a fast food joint. You're much better off using code as your secret weapon in another profession. People who can code in the world of technology companies are a dime a dozen and get no respect. People who can code in biology, medicine, government, sociology, physics, history, and mathematics are respected and can do amazing things to advance those disciplines." [1] http://www.paulgraham.com/wealth.html http://www.paulgraham.com/wealth.html [2] http://learnpythonthehardway.org/book/advice.html http://learnpythonthehardway.org/book/advice.html
  - pointyhat 15y ago
    Reminder: pg and zed are not deities. They have an opinion.
    - deleted 15y ago
      [deleted]
- DarkShikari 15y ago
  Any software development career, of course. IT careers; even sysadmins need to write scripts to manage systems. Any career in the sciences; basically any scientist, even a pure experimentalist, ends up needing to write simulations in MATLAB at the very least. Any engineering career: computer-modelling complex systems, whether chemical or mechanical or whatnot, requires programming skills. Anyone in applied mathematics, like operations research. Anyone in quantitative finance. I'm pretty sure this covers way more than merely 10 "distinct careers", and there's plenty I missed.
dpkendal 15y ago
"We want to establish the idea that a computer language is not just a way of getting a computer to perform operations but rather that it is a novel formal medium for expressing ideas about methodology." Programming: it's not just a skill. It's a way of life. http://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/full-text/book/book-Z-H-7.html#%_chap_Temp_4 http://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/full-text/book/book-Z-H-7.html#...
- pointyhat 15y ago
  Whilst I like SICP and have studied it thoroughly, it's a way of life if you choose it to be. Most don't.

pointyhat 15y ago

It's fundamental in possibly less than 5% of careers. Don't inflate it to something it isn't.

mibbit 15y ago

List 10 distinct careers where programming is a fundamental skill.

dpritchett 15y ago
Pretty much anywhere people use Excel. Any job where people use spreadsheets and their output is quantified and measured against their peers is ripe for automation by enterprising individuals. Why not be the fastest, most accurate analyst on your team? From pg: "To get rich you need to get yourself in a situation with two things, measurement and leverage. You need to be in a position where your performance can be measured, or there is no way to get paid more by doing more. And you have to have leverage, in the sense that the decisions you make have a big effect." And also from Zed Shaw: "Programming as a profession is only moderately interesting. It can be a good job, but you could make about the same money and be happier running a fast food joint. You're much better off using code as your secret weapon in another profession. People who can code in the world of technology companies are a dime a dozen and get no respect. People who can code in biology, medicine, government, sociology, physics, history, and mathematics are respected and can do amazing things to advance those disciplines." [1] http://www.paulgraham.com/wealth.html http://www.paulgraham.com/wealth.html [2] http://learnpythonthehardway.org/book/advice.html http://learnpythonthehardway.org/book/advice.html
- pointyhat 15y ago
  Reminder: pg and zed are not deities. They have an opinion.
  - deleted 15y ago
    [deleted]
DarkShikari 15y ago
Any software development career, of course. IT careers; even sysadmins need to write scripts to manage systems. Any career in the sciences; basically any scientist, even a pure experimentalist, ends up needing to write simulations in MATLAB at the very least. Any engineering career: computer-modelling complex systems, whether chemical or mechanical or whatnot, requires programming skills. Anyone in applied mathematics, like operations research. Anyone in quantitative finance. I'm pretty sure this covers way more than merely 10 "distinct careers", and there's plenty I missed.

dpkendal 15y ago

"We want to establish the idea that a computer language is not just a way of getting a computer to perform operations but rather that it is a novel formal medium for expressing ideas about methodology." Programming: it's not just a skill. It's a way of life. http://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/full-text/book/book-Z-H-7.html#%_chap_Temp_4 http://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/full-text/book/book-Z-H-7.html#...

pointyhat 15y ago
Whilst I like SICP and have studied it thoroughly, it's a way of life if you choose it to be. Most don't.