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What conclusion, I'm not asserting they are going to fail. Startup failure rates are close to 90%, being concerned that this startup might also fail isn't unr

What conclusion, I'm not asserting they are going to fail. Startup failure rates are close to 90%, being concerned that this startup might also fail isn't unreasonable.

catach 5y ago
My intuition is that hardware based startup failure rates are significantly higher, still.
- Ensorceled 5y ago
  Right! Yeah, I didn't want to get into a debate about the actual product and product space ...
- j45 5y ago
  They might just pull it off though.
j45 5y ago
Let’s not skim the surface. The Framework seems to be a modern Thinkpad with a similar USP of how they were built in 2012 before manufacturers tried to introduce and convince consumers of disposable laptops for the past 10 years. The reason I suggested handling one is the build quality for a first gen device is hard to believe until you hold one and use it for a few days or weeks. The framework is well beyond the quality of first gen devices and feels like the smart people at Apple, Lenovo, etc got together to build a laptop and delivered. Let’s look at it from where you’re presenting it: Customers exist in multiple segments: Pioneers, Early Adopters, Early Conservatives, Late Conservatives and Laggards.. distributed on a bell curve. It’s true startups largely fail because most fail to find a product people want, or deliver on finding a market and distribution for it. They seem to have resonated. Successful startups often need to appeal to a large enough Pioneer and Early Adopter market to sustain crossing that little chasm to sustainability. Seems like a premium priced product is selling out in batches and getting decent reviews. Laptops are not a small market. Likely enough pioneers and early adopters exist, unlike the conservatives and laggards that delay adopting technology until validated by others. Someone can run Windows or Linux. Maybe you’re not an early adopter or pioneer.. but many entrepreneurs and creators could be. Innovators usually exist in a mindset of possibility leveraged with unfair advantages and Framework seems to have a few. While I don’t work for Framework, I’ve sadly owned 10-15 laptops. With each new laptop I also buy the death of that device. The framework has as many if not more replaceable components from third parties. On being reasonable, I think it’s fair to say that not everything is for everyone. You or I are not everyone or everyone’s needs. All it has to do is last 2-3 years without much ado, which it probably will, while being produced in small batches that are hopefully profitable. I bought and returned my framework and outlined why in another comment, mostly I learned I didn’t have the time to tinker, but I don’t think there’s an option like it on the market. My guess? Framework will be around, and might even build up like Razer, System76, etc and be acquired by a large manufacturer. Edit: Forgot to add the initial link between a 2012 Thinkpad and Framework.
- Ensorceled 5y ago
  I really hope you are correct! I would love to see a less consumer hostile (and more environmentally friendly) business model succeed and start to gain traction.
- jodrellblank 5y ago
  > “The reason I suggested handling one is the build quality for a first gen device is hard to believe until you hold one and use it for a few days or weeks.” I haven’t seen one, but that’s at odds with peoples comments in this thread from last week: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29806430 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29806430 “one of the worst purchases I've ever made. [...] This last point is pretty minor, but the hinges are floppy. The whole screen shakes around when I type on it.“ “Build quality. I'm convinced if I drop this thing it's all over. All in all I'm mad at myself for spending over $3k on a productivity configuration centered around what is pretty much beta hardware. I should have known better.” “Re build quality: yes, it is a bit flimsier than I would like (though have definitely used laptops that are way worse)” > “All it has to do is last 2-3 years without much ado, which it probably will” If that’s all you need why wouldn’t you buy a non-upgradeable one? It’ll be thinner, lighter and less fuss. The framework seems to be targeted at people who want a decade of use with upgrades.

What conclusion, I'm not asserting they are going to fail. Startup failure rates are close to 90%, being concerned that this startup might also fail isn't unreasonable.

catach 5y ago

My intuition is that hardware based startup failure rates are significantly higher, still.

Ensorceled 5y ago
Right! Yeah, I didn't want to get into a debate about the actual product and product space ...
j45 5y ago
They might just pull it off though.

j45 5y ago

Let’s not skim the surface. The Framework seems to be a modern Thinkpad with a similar USP of how they were built in 2012 before manufacturers tried to introduce and convince consumers of disposable laptops for the past 10 years. The reason I suggested handling one is the build quality for a first gen device is hard to believe until you hold one and use it for a few days or weeks. The framework is well beyond the quality of first gen devices and feels like the smart people at Apple, Lenovo, etc got together to build a laptop and delivered. Let’s look at it from where you’re presenting it: Customers exist in multiple segments: Pioneers, Early Adopters, Early Conservatives, Late Conservatives and Laggards.. distributed on a bell curve. It’s true startups largely fail because most fail to find a product people want, or deliver on finding a market and distribution for it. They seem to have resonated. Successful startups often need to appeal to a large enough Pioneer and Early Adopter market to sustain crossing that little chasm to sustainability. Seems like a premium priced product is selling out in batches and getting decent reviews. Laptops are not a small market. Likely enough pioneers and early adopters exist, unlike the conservatives and laggards that delay adopting technology until validated by others. Someone can run Windows or Linux. Maybe you’re not an early adopter or pioneer.. but many entrepreneurs and creators could be. Innovators usually exist in a mindset of possibility leveraged with unfair advantages and Framework seems to have a few. While I don’t work for Framework, I’ve sadly owned 10-15 laptops. With each new laptop I also buy the death of that device. The framework has as many if not more replaceable components from third parties. On being reasonable, I think it’s fair to say that not everything is for everyone. You or I are not everyone or everyone’s needs. All it has to do is last 2-3 years without much ado, which it probably will, while being produced in small batches that are hopefully profitable. I bought and returned my framework and outlined why in another comment, mostly I learned I didn’t have the time to tinker, but I don’t think there’s an option like it on the market. My guess? Framework will be around, and might even build up like Razer, System76, etc and be acquired by a large manufacturer. Edit: Forgot to add the initial link between a 2012 Thinkpad and Framework.

Ensorceled 5y ago
I really hope you are correct! I would love to see a less consumer hostile (and more environmentally friendly) business model succeed and start to gain traction.
jodrellblank 5y ago
> “The reason I suggested handling one is the build quality for a first gen device is hard to believe until you hold one and use it for a few days or weeks.” I haven’t seen one, but that’s at odds with peoples comments in this thread from last week: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29806430 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29806430 “one of the worst purchases I've ever made. [...] This last point is pretty minor, but the hinges are floppy. The whole screen shakes around when I type on it.“ “Build quality. I'm convinced if I drop this thing it's all over. All in all I'm mad at myself for spending over $3k on a productivity configuration centered around what is pretty much beta hardware. I should have known better.” “Re build quality: yes, it is a bit flimsier than I would like (though have definitely used laptops that are way worse)” > “All it has to do is last 2-3 years without much ado, which it probably will” If that’s all you need why wouldn’t you buy a non-upgradeable one? It’ll be thinner, lighter and less fuss. The framework seems to be targeted at people who want a decade of use with upgrades.