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> If vaccination does not meaningfully prevent transmission, as increasingly seems to be case with Omicron, faking vaccination harms only the fake recipient.

> If vaccination does not meaningfully prevent transmission, as increasingly seems to be case with Omicron, faking vaccination harms only the fake recipient. keyword being if and meaningfully. Anyway that fake recipient may still need top notch expensive care to stay alive if he doesn't get mild covid. Are you suggesting that he should pay in full for those care since you state it only harms the fake recipient ? Also, it increasingly seems that a third dose significantly increases protection against omicron.

thematrixturtle 5y ago
Yes, I think that would be an excellent idea, and quite a few countries are in fact moving in that direction. Early evidence is that the protection against transmission from the booster appears to be quite fleeting (weeks, not months), so the main reason to vaccinate is really to protect yourself.
toolz 5y ago
The unvaccinated haven't done nearly the damage policy has to hospitals. The US has like 6-7% fewer staffed beds than before the pandemic and has stupidly decided to fire unvaccinated healthcare workers that have almost assuredly developed their immunity naturally. People seem to forget much of the world still has no access to vaccines. Every person being vaccinated with natural immunity is someone without immunity missing that vaccine.
- refurb 5y ago
  Yup. California is now changing the rules to allow Covid positive healthcare works to come back without any quarantine. https://www.kcra.com/article/nurses-react-covid-19-protocols-health-care-workers/38702838 https://www.kcra.com/article/nurses-react-covid-19-protocols... So is France and Canada.
- selimthegrim 5y ago
  What does natural immunity mean with new variants and when it lasts from 90 days to six months? Are these people going to pay to get their antibody titers checked every week? If they incubate a new variant themselves are they willing to be held personally liable?
  - toolz 5y ago
    >What does natural immunity mean with new variants and when it lasts from 90 days to six months? I'm not sure what you're asking. Are you saying that antibodies last 90 days to 6 months? Firstly that's incorrect as antibodies seem to be detectable even after 8 months in the study I'm remembering, but more importantly your immune system is made up of many parts and antibodies are not the primary response to coronaviruses since the antibodies do fade rather quickly. Instead the many other parts of our immune system are extremely long lived with other coronaviruses and there's no reason to expect they won't be extremely long lived with covid. In fact the reason you see so many asymptomatic cases with covid is because of preexisting natural immunity to similar coronaviruses. > If they incubate a new variant themselves are they willing to be held personally liable? Are you suggesting if we had the tech (we don't) to trace down the exact host where a virus mutates into a recognizably different strain that host should be liable? I think you should really reflect on exactly that would mean and exactly how harmful that would be for society. You do realize every single person in the entire world will either die in the next couple of years or without a doubt be attacked by covid, right? That means you'd basically be putting up a lottery system to see who gets to lose for being "ground zero" for a new variant mutation. This would be completely pointless and would serve only to hurt people with zero chance of helping anyone.

thematrixturtle 5y ago

Yes, I think that would be an excellent idea, and quite a few countries are in fact moving in that direction. Early evidence is that the protection against transmission from the booster appears to be quite fleeting (weeks, not months), so the main reason to vaccinate is really to protect yourself.

toolz 5y ago

The unvaccinated haven't done nearly the damage policy has to hospitals. The US has like 6-7% fewer staffed beds than before the pandemic and has stupidly decided to fire unvaccinated healthcare workers that have almost assuredly developed their immunity naturally. People seem to forget much of the world still has no access to vaccines. Every person being vaccinated with natural immunity is someone without immunity missing that vaccine.

refurb 5y ago
Yup. California is now changing the rules to allow Covid positive healthcare works to come back without any quarantine. https://www.kcra.com/article/nurses-react-covid-19-protocols-health-care-workers/38702838 https://www.kcra.com/article/nurses-react-covid-19-protocols... So is France and Canada.
selimthegrim 5y ago
What does natural immunity mean with new variants and when it lasts from 90 days to six months? Are these people going to pay to get their antibody titers checked every week? If they incubate a new variant themselves are they willing to be held personally liable?
- toolz 5y ago
  >What does natural immunity mean with new variants and when it lasts from 90 days to six months? I'm not sure what you're asking. Are you saying that antibodies last 90 days to 6 months? Firstly that's incorrect as antibodies seem to be detectable even after 8 months in the study I'm remembering, but more importantly your immune system is made up of many parts and antibodies are not the primary response to coronaviruses since the antibodies do fade rather quickly. Instead the many other parts of our immune system are extremely long lived with other coronaviruses and there's no reason to expect they won't be extremely long lived with covid. In fact the reason you see so many asymptomatic cases with covid is because of preexisting natural immunity to similar coronaviruses. > If they incubate a new variant themselves are they willing to be held personally liable? Are you suggesting if we had the tech (we don't) to trace down the exact host where a virus mutates into a recognizably different strain that host should be liable? I think you should really reflect on exactly that would mean and exactly how harmful that would be for society. You do realize every single person in the entire world will either die in the next couple of years or without a doubt be attacked by covid, right? That means you'd basically be putting up a lottery system to see who gets to lose for being "ground zero" for a new variant mutation. This would be completely pointless and would serve only to hurt people with zero chance of helping anyone.