4 ms·

It may not be a kickstarter but it is definitely a startup in a tough space, being skeptical of its long term success is pretty reasonable.

j45 5y ago
Try one out before you start with that conclusion
- Cthulhu_ 5y ago
  That's the thing, their USP is long-term maintainability and upgradeability, but if they call it quits in a year, you're stuck with a niche product that nobody else is willing to make parts for.
  - easton 5y ago
    To be fair, once you hit 5 years (or if you’re unlucky 3 years) it becomes just about impossible to get OEM parts from Dell or Lenovo and you have to resort to cannibalizing broken ones off eBay or your parts bin if you’re in enterprise. So either way you could end up in the same boat, except if framework comes up with a gen 2 it’s possible with enough consumer pressure they’ll make the parts cross compatible.
    - j45 5y ago
      A bit part of the Frameworks USP isn’t understandable by many laptop users who haven’t repaired or upgraded their own laptops in the past. They will just buy, while a repairable laptop could create beginners who can learn to maintain well designed equipment. It might not give the iPhone 23 feels.
    - my_usernam3 5y ago
      > you have to resort to cannibalizing broken ones off eBay or your parts bin if you’re in enterprise Except these graveyards are ENDLESS because of the amount they produced and companies threw away. My favorite is all the originally $150 docking stations that you can pick up for under $20 (or at least when I was in the lenovo t series game).
      - easton 5y ago
        Fresh (or at least gently used) batteries are the reason I had to stop using my X220 though, as I bought like three different batteries (one OEM that was old stock, and two third-party) and none could keep it up for more than an hour. That's tough without OEM support.
  - j45 5y ago
    Stuck with a chassis and motherboard, but not the ram, storage, wifi or power supply. They seem to have too much invested to not make it a year.
- Ensorceled 5y ago
  What conclusion, I'm not asserting they are going to fail. Startup failure rates are close to 90%, being concerned that this startup might also fail isn't unreasonable.
  - catach 5y ago
    My intuition is that hardware based startup failure rates are significantly higher, still.
    - Ensorceled 5y ago
      Right! Yeah, I didn't want to get into a debate about the actual product and product space ...
    - j45 5y ago
      They might just pull it off though.
  - j45 5y ago
    Let’s not skim the surface. The Framework seems to be a modern Thinkpad with a similar USP of how they were built in 2012 before manufacturers tried to introduce and convince consumers of disposable laptops for the past 10 years. The reason I suggested handling one is the build quality for a first gen device is hard to believe until you hold one and use it for a few days or weeks. The framework is well beyond the quality of first gen devices and feels like the smart people at Apple, Lenovo, etc got together to build a laptop and delivered. Let’s look at it from where you’re presenting it: Customers exist in multiple segments: Pioneers, Early Adopters, Early Conservatives, Late Conservatives and Laggards.. distributed on a bell curve. It’s true startups largely fail because most fail to find a product people want, or deliver on finding a market and distribution for it. They seem to have resonated. Successful startups often need to appeal to a large enough Pioneer and Early Adopter market to sustain crossing that little chasm to sustainability. Seems like a premium priced product is selling out in batches and getting decent reviews. Laptops are not a small market. Likely enough pioneers and early adopters exist, unlike the conservatives and laggards that delay adopting technology until validated by others. Someone can run Windows or Linux. Maybe you’re not an early adopter or pioneer.. but many entrepreneurs and creators could be. Innovators usually exist in a mindset of possibility leveraged with unfair advantages and Framework seems to have a few. While I don’t work for Framework, I’ve sadly owned 10-15 laptops. With each new laptop I also buy the death of that device. The framework has as many if not more replaceable components from third parties. On being reasonable, I think it’s fair to say that not everything is for everyone. You or I are not everyone or everyone’s needs. All it has to do is last 2-3 years without much ado, which it probably will, while being produced in small batches that are hopefully profitable. I bought and returned my framework and outlined why in another comment, mostly I learned I didn’t have the time to tinker, but I don’t think there’s an option like it on the market. My guess? Framework will be around, and might even build up like Razer, System76, etc and be acquired by a large manufacturer. Edit: Forgot to add the initial link between a 2012 Thinkpad and Framework.

j45 5y ago

Try one out before you start with that conclusion

Cthulhu_ 5y ago
That's the thing, their USP is long-term maintainability and upgradeability, but if they call it quits in a year, you're stuck with a niche product that nobody else is willing to make parts for.
- easton 5y ago
  To be fair, once you hit 5 years (or if you’re unlucky 3 years) it becomes just about impossible to get OEM parts from Dell or Lenovo and you have to resort to cannibalizing broken ones off eBay or your parts bin if you’re in enterprise. So either way you could end up in the same boat, except if framework comes up with a gen 2 it’s possible with enough consumer pressure they’ll make the parts cross compatible.
  - j45 5y ago
    A bit part of the Frameworks USP isn’t understandable by many laptop users who haven’t repaired or upgraded their own laptops in the past. They will just buy, while a repairable laptop could create beginners who can learn to maintain well designed equipment. It might not give the iPhone 23 feels.
  - my_usernam3 5y ago
    > you have to resort to cannibalizing broken ones off eBay or your parts bin if you’re in enterprise Except these graveyards are ENDLESS because of the amount they produced and companies threw away. My favorite is all the originally $150 docking stations that you can pick up for under $20 (or at least when I was in the lenovo t series game).
    - easton 5y ago
      Fresh (or at least gently used) batteries are the reason I had to stop using my X220 though, as I bought like three different batteries (one OEM that was old stock, and two third-party) and none could keep it up for more than an hour. That's tough without OEM support.
- j45 5y ago
  Stuck with a chassis and motherboard, but not the ram, storage, wifi or power supply. They seem to have too much invested to not make it a year.
Ensorceled 5y ago
What conclusion, I'm not asserting they are going to fail. Startup failure rates are close to 90%, being concerned that this startup might also fail isn't unreasonable.
- catach 5y ago
  My intuition is that hardware based startup failure rates are significantly higher, still.
  - Ensorceled 5y ago
    Right! Yeah, I didn't want to get into a debate about the actual product and product space ...
  - j45 5y ago
    They might just pull it off though.
- j45 5y ago
  Let’s not skim the surface. The Framework seems to be a modern Thinkpad with a similar USP of how they were built in 2012 before manufacturers tried to introduce and convince consumers of disposable laptops for the past 10 years. The reason I suggested handling one is the build quality for a first gen device is hard to believe until you hold one and use it for a few days or weeks. The framework is well beyond the quality of first gen devices and feels like the smart people at Apple, Lenovo, etc got together to build a laptop and delivered. Let’s look at it from where you’re presenting it: Customers exist in multiple segments: Pioneers, Early Adopters, Early Conservatives, Late Conservatives and Laggards.. distributed on a bell curve. It’s true startups largely fail because most fail to find a product people want, or deliver on finding a market and distribution for it. They seem to have resonated. Successful startups often need to appeal to a large enough Pioneer and Early Adopter market to sustain crossing that little chasm to sustainability. Seems like a premium priced product is selling out in batches and getting decent reviews. Laptops are not a small market. Likely enough pioneers and early adopters exist, unlike the conservatives and laggards that delay adopting technology until validated by others. Someone can run Windows or Linux. Maybe you’re not an early adopter or pioneer.. but many entrepreneurs and creators could be. Innovators usually exist in a mindset of possibility leveraged with unfair advantages and Framework seems to have a few. While I don’t work for Framework, I’ve sadly owned 10-15 laptops. With each new laptop I also buy the death of that device. The framework has as many if not more replaceable components from third parties. On being reasonable, I think it’s fair to say that not everything is for everyone. You or I are not everyone or everyone’s needs. All it has to do is last 2-3 years without much ado, which it probably will, while being produced in small batches that are hopefully profitable. I bought and returned my framework and outlined why in another comment, mostly I learned I didn’t have the time to tinker, but I don’t think there’s an option like it on the market. My guess? Framework will be around, and might even build up like Razer, System76, etc and be acquired by a large manufacturer. Edit: Forgot to add the initial link between a 2012 Thinkpad and Framework.