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deal with autistic colleagues "Autistic" is not an acceptable term to use in a derogatory way, and not fair to the TONS of people on the autism spectrum who w

deal with autistic colleagues "Autistic" is not an acceptable term to use in a derogatory way, and not fair to the TONS of people on the autism spectrum who work hard to fit in at a predominantly neurotypical workplace. I don't know if you meant it in that way but your use of that word is very unsavory in this context, and I urge you to be a little more considerate in your use of that word when you finish your search and join a company.

BrianOnHN 5y ago
Yeah, I stopped reading and discredited the comment right there.
jmconfuzeus 5y ago
- SamoyedFurFluff 5y ago
  I’m confused at this position that bothersome colleagues who don’t communicate enough can be attributed to a specific diagnosis. People can be all sorts of non communicative just because they don’t believe you’re worth their time, or they’re too busy to answer your questions.
- Cthulhu_ 5y ago
  > why should I have to deal with autistic people who can only give 1 word replies to every question? Well, sorry to burst your bubble but you're already dealing with autistic people in your daily life. Worse, you're being a dick about it. It's a spectrum (or more like an equalizer with many sliders); the ones you describe are low in communicativeness (or low in giving a shit about you), most manage all right. See also: masking. But yeah tl;dr IT has tons of people on the spectrum; just because you don't notice them means they're good at masking and/or you can't actually tell.
  - ethbr0 5y ago
    To give parent the most charitable interpretation of their comment, they dislike dealing with antisocial and/or poorly communicating people at work. Whether that's because the individual is on the spectrum, or because they're a dick who just doesn't care... is a medical diagnosis question. But there's a reason "reasonable accommodation" exists in disability law. There's a balance to be struck between increasing workplace equality and doing so at the expense of coworkers. I think everyone who's worked in the industry 5+ years has been on a team or project with someone who "reasonable" probably shouldn't have covered, whatever the underlying diagnosis.
    - cushychicken 5y ago
      To give parent the most charitable interpretation of their comment, they dislike dealing with antisocial and/or poorly communicating people at work I understand this, but I also strongly oppose the fact that OP equated "autistic" and "antisocial and/or poorly communicating". That is an incorrect and harmful generalization towards people on the autism spectrum.
  - bena 5y ago
    I wouldn't even call it "low in communicativeness". Because if you ask a question that can be answered in one word, but are expecting more for whatever reasons, that's your own damn fault. It's like greeting people with "How are you doing?" It's not a real question. No one wants a comprehensive answer to that. So if you actually answer that question, people are going to get annoyed with you. This style of communication is infuriating to some of those on the spectrum because it involves navigating a byzantine set of rules that are never defined and ever shifting. Communication should be clear, concise, and honest if you want it to be effective. Don't make the other side work to understand you. If you want to know something, ask for that information. Don't ask a vaguely related question and hope the other side volunteers the information. Because it's just like the "How are you doing?" greeting. Except, we're not supposed to volunteer information there. And sometimes we're not even supposed to volunteer information in those other situations. So when do you expound? You're stuck in a position of trying to read the other person's mind trying to figure out if they really want to know something. It's tiring and infuriating.
- amcoastal 5y ago
  "Deal with autistic people"? What's the difference between you saying something like that and saying you just prefer working with able bodied adults not having to "Deal with parapalegics". Good luck in your future corporate job, I hope its not sitting next to me.
- antonvs 5y ago
  > why should I have to deal with ... Why should anyone else have to deal with people like you?
- mcv 5y ago
  I'm afraid I can imagine what life would be like if I had you as a colleague, and I don't think I'd enjoy it. I'm not that sensitive, but I do think respect is important, and if you can't respect your co-workers, even after having it pointed out politely, I simply don't want you in my team. If you struggle finding good projects at companies that respect you and your work, maybe this is something you could work on.
- throwaway776677 5y ago
  > A big problem in this industry is sensitive people like you. ... I can't imagine what life would be like if I had you as a colleague. Jesus Christ. There's just no need for this level of bile, on Hacker News or anywhere else for that matter. The funny thing is, I have a lot of sympathy for your original comment. I have worked with the odd coworker or two (hence throwaway) who surely were autistic and were impossible to work with and the two things were certainly connected. It may not be PC but it's true. But stately things plainly doens't need to extend to personal insults, never mind this extreme.
- cushychicken 5y ago
  why should I have to deal with autistic people who can only give 1 word replies to every question? Because tolerance is a valuable thing, and makes your workplace a better, stronger one by allowing safe harbor for alternate viewpoints. I suspect your future employer would not look fondly on your choice of words if you chose to use "autistic" in the same manner in a professional setting. A big problem in this industry is sensitive people like you I am proud to be problematic to the industry in general and to you in particular if taking a stand against unacceptable derogatory language is considered "problematic".
- ac2022 5y ago
  - artemonster 5y ago
    Nice strawman you‘ve made there
- dang 5y ago
  Personal attacks will get you banned here. So will taking HN threads further into flamewar. No more of this, please. Needless to say, using 'autistic' as a slur is also flamebait and therefore against the site guidelines. No more of that, please, either. If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful. You've broken it badly in this thread.
artemonster 5y ago
What is an acceptable derogatory term when you need one?
- cushychicken 5y ago
  I'd offer "wow, you're being a real jmconfuzeus"
- solarmist 5y ago
  One that doesn't apply to individuals only based on their birth. There are plenty of autistic people that do and don't have trouble communicating. Like there are plenty of neurotypical people who do and don't have trouble communicating. Sure, the percentages are skewed very differently, but it's nowhere near all or nothing.
diogenesjunior 5y ago
Oh please.
- cushychicken 5y ago
  And thank you.
toraway1234 5y ago
I'm in the spectrum. I don't care. Grow an skin.
- cushychicken 5y ago
  I care. People in my life who are on the spectrum, that I care about, care. I'm not standing up for you so much as I'm standing up for them.
  - xwdv 5y ago
    Results are the only thing that matters, everything else is just day to day pleasantries.
zo1 5y ago
Different take: Interpreting that comment as being somehow mean and against autistic people is dishonest, judgemental, and frankly evokes a sense of taking advantage of a situation to promote a personal goal. The discussion is effectively de-railed, the person's comment demeaned and substance distracted from, and here we all are, forced to discuss this topic whereas 100% likely that the person that used the term "autistic" is neither against autistic individuals, isn't going to discriminate against actual autistic individuals, and is a decent human being that hasn't hurt anyone. So what have we accomplished?
- jmconfuzeus 5y ago
  The last phrase was sort of a joke and I'm not sure whether I should feel guilty or not. Anyway, what I've found is that people who speak out against "bad words" are quite toxic. It's obvious that autistic in this sense isn't the clinically diagnosed condition but in that of slang. If I say that you're like a pig, it doesn't mean that you go oink oink. And yet, educated people will take everything you say literally and turn into missionaries. Reminds me of the time when the church destroyed pretty much every text on Greek philosophy simply because they said that the soul doesn't exist.
  - artemonster 5y ago
    They like the feeling being on a moral high horse.
    - Clubber 5y ago
      Sanctimonious is the word I like to use. Someone tried to defend me once about something stupid and trivial. I told them not to (in so many words). It's definitely patronizing and people shouldn't do it, especially so reflexively. What, 6 people jumped on that bandwagon?
    - goodpoint 5y ago
      Spare the performative cynicism please. Expecting basic decency has little to do with high horses.
cjbgkagh 5y ago
ADHD here. I think we're probably the least likely to care. In fact everyone being so sensitive is much worse for me so I would prefer if we all just cared a lot less about feelings so I can go back to giving one word answers to stupid questions.
selfmodruntime 5y ago
I am on the spectrum myself. I don't give a damn. People should grow some thicker skin
dang 5y ago
The GP shouldn't have included that flamebait, but focusing on it just makes the thread worse. That's one reason the site guidelines say: "Please don't pick the most provocative thing in an article or post to complain about in the thread. Find something interesting to respond to instead." https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- solarmist 5y ago
  Great moderation yet again, Dang! I'm curious what kind of tools do you have for moderating HN? Like do you have a tool that highlights threads that are racking up tons of posts/downvotes/etc. or something like that? Or is 80% of your day spent reading every thread posted?
  - dang 5y ago
    I wrote a browser extension with a lot of keyboard shortcuts.
- cushychicken 5y ago
  What part of these guidelines advises against the use of derogatory speech? I'll grant that focusing on it was not in the spirit of the HN guidelines. That's on me. However, GP's comment would have been just as unacceptable if it was distinguishing based on race, or gender, or LGBT status. I'm surprised and a bit disappointed that there's no explicit guidelines against derogatory uses of that kind of language. Does "derogatory speech" count as "flamebait"?
  - quietbritishjim 5y ago
    Here's the bit you're referencing: > Eschew flamebait. Avoid unrelated controversies and generic tangents. Personally, I would say yes, derogatory speech is flamebait, because there will of course be those that criticise it and those that defend it as plain speaking - a classic flame war. It's also (certainly in this case) unrelated, tangential and clearly controversial. There's also this bit: > Be kind. ... Please don't sneer, including at the rest of the community. The clause about "including at the rest of the community" suggests that it also applies to those not in the community.

BrianOnHN 5y ago

Yeah, I stopped reading and discredited the comment right there.

jmconfuzeus 5y ago

SamoyedFurFluff 5y ago
I’m confused at this position that bothersome colleagues who don’t communicate enough can be attributed to a specific diagnosis. People can be all sorts of non communicative just because they don’t believe you’re worth their time, or they’re too busy to answer your questions.
Cthulhu_ 5y ago
> why should I have to deal with autistic people who can only give 1 word replies to every question? Well, sorry to burst your bubble but you're already dealing with autistic people in your daily life. Worse, you're being a dick about it. It's a spectrum (or more like an equalizer with many sliders); the ones you describe are low in communicativeness (or low in giving a shit about you), most manage all right. See also: masking. But yeah tl;dr IT has tons of people on the spectrum; just because you don't notice them means they're good at masking and/or you can't actually tell.
- ethbr0 5y ago
  To give parent the most charitable interpretation of their comment, they dislike dealing with antisocial and/or poorly communicating people at work. Whether that's because the individual is on the spectrum, or because they're a dick who just doesn't care... is a medical diagnosis question. But there's a reason "reasonable accommodation" exists in disability law. There's a balance to be struck between increasing workplace equality and doing so at the expense of coworkers. I think everyone who's worked in the industry 5+ years has been on a team or project with someone who "reasonable" probably shouldn't have covered, whatever the underlying diagnosis.
  - cushychicken 5y ago
    To give parent the most charitable interpretation of their comment, they dislike dealing with antisocial and/or poorly communicating people at work I understand this, but I also strongly oppose the fact that OP equated "autistic" and "antisocial and/or poorly communicating". That is an incorrect and harmful generalization towards people on the autism spectrum.
- bena 5y ago
  I wouldn't even call it "low in communicativeness". Because if you ask a question that can be answered in one word, but are expecting more for whatever reasons, that's your own damn fault. It's like greeting people with "How are you doing?" It's not a real question. No one wants a comprehensive answer to that. So if you actually answer that question, people are going to get annoyed with you. This style of communication is infuriating to some of those on the spectrum because it involves navigating a byzantine set of rules that are never defined and ever shifting. Communication should be clear, concise, and honest if you want it to be effective. Don't make the other side work to understand you. If you want to know something, ask for that information. Don't ask a vaguely related question and hope the other side volunteers the information. Because it's just like the "How are you doing?" greeting. Except, we're not supposed to volunteer information there. And sometimes we're not even supposed to volunteer information in those other situations. So when do you expound? You're stuck in a position of trying to read the other person's mind trying to figure out if they really want to know something. It's tiring and infuriating.
amcoastal 5y ago
"Deal with autistic people"? What's the difference between you saying something like that and saying you just prefer working with able bodied adults not having to "Deal with parapalegics". Good luck in your future corporate job, I hope its not sitting next to me.
antonvs 5y ago
> why should I have to deal with ... Why should anyone else have to deal with people like you?
mcv 5y ago
I'm afraid I can imagine what life would be like if I had you as a colleague, and I don't think I'd enjoy it. I'm not that sensitive, but I do think respect is important, and if you can't respect your co-workers, even after having it pointed out politely, I simply don't want you in my team. If you struggle finding good projects at companies that respect you and your work, maybe this is something you could work on.
throwaway776677 5y ago
> A big problem in this industry is sensitive people like you. ... I can't imagine what life would be like if I had you as a colleague. Jesus Christ. There's just no need for this level of bile, on Hacker News or anywhere else for that matter. The funny thing is, I have a lot of sympathy for your original comment. I have worked with the odd coworker or two (hence throwaway) who surely were autistic and were impossible to work with and the two things were certainly connected. It may not be PC but it's true. But stately things plainly doens't need to extend to personal insults, never mind this extreme.
cushychicken 5y ago
why should I have to deal with autistic people who can only give 1 word replies to every question? Because tolerance is a valuable thing, and makes your workplace a better, stronger one by allowing safe harbor for alternate viewpoints. I suspect your future employer would not look fondly on your choice of words if you chose to use "autistic" in the same manner in a professional setting. A big problem in this industry is sensitive people like you I am proud to be problematic to the industry in general and to you in particular if taking a stand against unacceptable derogatory language is considered "problematic".
ac2022 5y ago
- artemonster 5y ago
  Nice strawman you‘ve made there
dang 5y ago
Personal attacks will get you banned here. So will taking HN threads further into flamewar. No more of this, please. Needless to say, using 'autistic' as a slur is also flamebait and therefore against the site guidelines. No more of that, please, either. If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful. You've broken it badly in this thread.

artemonster 5y ago

What is an acceptable derogatory term when you need one?

cushychicken 5y ago
I'd offer "wow, you're being a real jmconfuzeus"
solarmist 5y ago
One that doesn't apply to individuals only based on their birth. There are plenty of autistic people that do and don't have trouble communicating. Like there are plenty of neurotypical people who do and don't have trouble communicating. Sure, the percentages are skewed very differently, but it's nowhere near all or nothing.

diogenesjunior 5y ago

Oh please.

cushychicken 5y ago
And thank you.

toraway1234 5y ago

I'm in the spectrum. I don't care. Grow an skin.

cushychicken 5y ago
I care. People in my life who are on the spectrum, that I care about, care. I'm not standing up for you so much as I'm standing up for them.
- xwdv 5y ago
  Results are the only thing that matters, everything else is just day to day pleasantries.

zo1 5y ago

Different take: Interpreting that comment as being somehow mean and against autistic people is dishonest, judgemental, and frankly evokes a sense of taking advantage of a situation to promote a personal goal. The discussion is effectively de-railed, the person's comment demeaned and substance distracted from, and here we all are, forced to discuss this topic whereas 100% likely that the person that used the term "autistic" is neither against autistic individuals, isn't going to discriminate against actual autistic individuals, and is a decent human being that hasn't hurt anyone. So what have we accomplished?

jmconfuzeus 5y ago
The last phrase was sort of a joke and I'm not sure whether I should feel guilty or not. Anyway, what I've found is that people who speak out against "bad words" are quite toxic. It's obvious that autistic in this sense isn't the clinically diagnosed condition but in that of slang. If I say that you're like a pig, it doesn't mean that you go oink oink. And yet, educated people will take everything you say literally and turn into missionaries. Reminds me of the time when the church destroyed pretty much every text on Greek philosophy simply because they said that the soul doesn't exist.
- artemonster 5y ago
  They like the feeling being on a moral high horse.
  - Clubber 5y ago
    Sanctimonious is the word I like to use. Someone tried to defend me once about something stupid and trivial. I told them not to (in so many words). It's definitely patronizing and people shouldn't do it, especially so reflexively. What, 6 people jumped on that bandwagon?
  - goodpoint 5y ago
    Spare the performative cynicism please. Expecting basic decency has little to do with high horses.

cjbgkagh 5y ago

ADHD here. I think we're probably the least likely to care. In fact everyone being so sensitive is much worse for me so I would prefer if we all just cared a lot less about feelings so I can go back to giving one word answers to stupid questions.

selfmodruntime 5y ago

I am on the spectrum myself. I don't give a damn. People should grow some thicker skin

dang 5y ago

The GP shouldn't have included that flamebait, but focusing on it just makes the thread worse. That's one reason the site guidelines say: "Please don't pick the most provocative thing in an article or post to complain about in the thread. Find something interesting to respond to instead." https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

solarmist 5y ago
Great moderation yet again, Dang! I'm curious what kind of tools do you have for moderating HN? Like do you have a tool that highlights threads that are racking up tons of posts/downvotes/etc. or something like that? Or is 80% of your day spent reading every thread posted?
- dang 5y ago
  I wrote a browser extension with a lot of keyboard shortcuts.
cushychicken 5y ago
What part of these guidelines advises against the use of derogatory speech? I'll grant that focusing on it was not in the spirit of the HN guidelines. That's on me. However, GP's comment would have been just as unacceptable if it was distinguishing based on race, or gender, or LGBT status. I'm surprised and a bit disappointed that there's no explicit guidelines against derogatory uses of that kind of language. Does "derogatory speech" count as "flamebait"?
- quietbritishjim 5y ago
  Here's the bit you're referencing: > Eschew flamebait. Avoid unrelated controversies and generic tangents. Personally, I would say yes, derogatory speech is flamebait, because there will of course be those that criticise it and those that defend it as plain speaking - a classic flame war. It's also (certainly in this case) unrelated, tangential and clearly controversial. There's also this bit: > Be kind. ... Please don't sneer, including at the rest of the community. The clause about "including at the rest of the community" suggests that it also applies to those not in the community.