4 ms·

> Sure you have to pick up a phone, but if it lands you a $2,000 deal that requires 10-20 hours of work, then why are you upset? Because I have to pick up a ph

> Sure you have to pick up a phone, but if it lands you a $2,000 deal that requires 10-20 hours of work, then why are you upset? Because I have to pick up a phone. Phones are scary.

jacquesm 5y ago
Why do you feel phones are scary?
- skinkestek 5y ago
  Not OP but everything that is not written is scary. Suddenly you have someone telling you what you told them and starts wondering: did I really promise that? (Written doesn't prevent people from trying that trick, as one particulariy brilliant but not very pleasant guy tried to tell me: "yes, <my name> that is what you wrote [in the mail] but not what you meant." However, in these cases I have a written record and I am confindent with myselves and that nasty person can bugger off.) Not saying one should never talk to people on the phone but when one are stressed out and stretched out thin it is not high on my wishlist.
  - fsloth 5y ago
    I hate phones as well but I've developed myself a ritual for alleviating th burden of anxiety-causing calls. Maybe this helps someone else as well: 1. Take pen and paper 2. Write a brief script how to start the call. Just sufficient amount of notes that you have a clear and concise agenda 3. During call take notes 4. If you don't understand something, repeat for the other party what they've said. Not in a way that it can be understood you agree with them as this can become a really problem with business dicussions, but using phrasing as "Can I repeat what you said so I am clear on this. According to you..." 5. At the end of the call, if there are topics that should be handled by you or the other party, review what was agreed topic by topic. I generally find people appreciate this structured approach in calls. At least it reduces most of the anxiety from my part to minimum.
  - Nextgrid 5y ago
    Depending on your local laws, it might be legal to record calls. Do so and then after the call listen to it again and take notes - that'll allow you to track what's been said.
    - chrismorgan 5y ago
      This prompted me to finally look at Australian law on the point. It varies by state: some allow you to record if you’re a party to the conversation, others require consent or similar, but all of the latter have an exception for if you’re protecting the lawful interests of one party, which sounds to me like blanket permission to record. Kinda like how snakes are protected in Australia and it’s illegal to kill them unless you or your family or such are in immediate danger from a snake, which basically means if you see a snake you can kill it.
  - tjbiddle 5y ago
    This is pretty easily solved. "Hey XYZ, it was such a pleasure speaking with you today. I'm going to shoot ya an email in a bit just to follow-up with everything we discussed. Have a great day!" Or - if that scares you still - just shoot them an email anyway to follow-up and recap without preluding. It gives them the opportunity to change/add/whatever in-text, and they can't say you said something differently because you can point to the email and say - no, we said this (And you didn't correct me).
    - drran 5y ago
      Skip the conversation over phone/skype, and it will work even better. Worked fine for me for 20 years (since 1998), until Covid, when Zoom become the new norm.
      - hackerfromthefu 5y ago
        What you do is write notes (or use the meeting transcription) and after the meeting send the important points around in an email as minutes of the meeting. That way you still have a written record to refer to.
- chrismorgan 5y ago
  It’s not easy to explain. I have to talk to someone. Maybe it’s someone I know, someone I talk to every week at church, but… this is by phone. It’s different. I know I have to make a phone call today or tomorrow, but I know I can’t ring now because he’ll be out on the farm, and if I ring now I’ll probably interrupt their evening meal or their family Bible readings, and now it’s too late, and now he might be at work, and… oh. I was supposed to call him the day before yesterday. Oops. I want to drop my car off for a service in Ballarat when I head down to Melbourne later this week, but that takes ringing them to make a booking. I should have done this in the middle of last week, when I planned to go down. All it takes is ringing their number, saying “can I book my car in for a service, drop off on the 13ᵗʰ or 14ᵗʰ, collection on the 15ᵗʰ”. For some reason that I can’t express, I haven’t made that phone call, and it’s probably too late now. I guess that DPF light will just continue flashing for a while longer. I could go on and on. It’s quite ridiculous how much trouble I have caused myself (and others, sometimes) just because I don’t like making phone calls. I’ve delayed things that would benefit me for years in a couple of cases. Receiving phone calls isn’t my favourite, either. I’m not crash hot with email or letters either, but phones and text messages are significantly worse. Phone call quality used to be fairly terrible, and I think that helped make it more of an ordeal too. That excuse is mostly gone now. If you don’t mind, or like, phones, you might be surprised just how many people are quite averse to making phone calls, some to the point of hating it with the passion of perhaps not a thousand suns, but at least a brown dwarf or two. Five or six of my seven siblings are in much the same boat as me, and my parents don’t like phones either. A couple of my siblings, and multiple other people I’ve talked with, find they more or less forget what they were going to talk about as soon as the call connects, and so it becomes an ordeal where they have to write a detailed list of what they want to talk about before dialing, or else their mind is just blank. But there is yet hope for me: I’m setting myself up as the local IT guy in my rural area, in significant part to force myself to deal with people more. Computers are easy, they do what I tell them to do, and I’m even pretty good at telling them the right thing to do; but people are what actually matter in life. I’m waiting for the return of Jesus and the establishment of God’s kingdom on earth, and I don’t think we’ll need software then. Well, a bloke rang me yesterday, I answered, and today I did my first job, and even got paid straight away.
  - 5y ago

> Sure you have to pick up a phone, but if it lands you a $2,000 deal that requires 10-20 hours of work, then why are you upset? Because I have to pick up a phone. Phones are scary.

jacquesm 5y ago

Why do you feel phones are scary?

skinkestek 5y ago
Not OP but everything that is not written is scary. Suddenly you have someone telling you what you told them and starts wondering: did I really promise that? (Written doesn't prevent people from trying that trick, as one particulariy brilliant but not very pleasant guy tried to tell me: "yes, <my name> that is what you wrote [in the mail] but not what you meant." However, in these cases I have a written record and I am confindent with myselves and that nasty person can bugger off.) Not saying one should never talk to people on the phone but when one are stressed out and stretched out thin it is not high on my wishlist.
- fsloth 5y ago
  I hate phones as well but I've developed myself a ritual for alleviating th burden of anxiety-causing calls. Maybe this helps someone else as well: 1. Take pen and paper 2. Write a brief script how to start the call. Just sufficient amount of notes that you have a clear and concise agenda 3. During call take notes 4. If you don't understand something, repeat for the other party what they've said. Not in a way that it can be understood you agree with them as this can become a really problem with business dicussions, but using phrasing as "Can I repeat what you said so I am clear on this. According to you..." 5. At the end of the call, if there are topics that should be handled by you or the other party, review what was agreed topic by topic. I generally find people appreciate this structured approach in calls. At least it reduces most of the anxiety from my part to minimum.
- Nextgrid 5y ago
  Depending on your local laws, it might be legal to record calls. Do so and then after the call listen to it again and take notes - that'll allow you to track what's been said.
  - chrismorgan 5y ago
    This prompted me to finally look at Australian law on the point. It varies by state: some allow you to record if you’re a party to the conversation, others require consent or similar, but all of the latter have an exception for if you’re protecting the lawful interests of one party, which sounds to me like blanket permission to record. Kinda like how snakes are protected in Australia and it’s illegal to kill them unless you or your family or such are in immediate danger from a snake, which basically means if you see a snake you can kill it.
- tjbiddle 5y ago
  This is pretty easily solved. "Hey XYZ, it was such a pleasure speaking with you today. I'm going to shoot ya an email in a bit just to follow-up with everything we discussed. Have a great day!" Or - if that scares you still - just shoot them an email anyway to follow-up and recap without preluding. It gives them the opportunity to change/add/whatever in-text, and they can't say you said something differently because you can point to the email and say - no, we said this (And you didn't correct me).
  - drran 5y ago
    Skip the conversation over phone/skype, and it will work even better. Worked fine for me for 20 years (since 1998), until Covid, when Zoom become the new norm.
    - hackerfromthefu 5y ago
      What you do is write notes (or use the meeting transcription) and after the meeting send the important points around in an email as minutes of the meeting. That way you still have a written record to refer to.
chrismorgan 5y ago
It’s not easy to explain. I have to talk to someone. Maybe it’s someone I know, someone I talk to every week at church, but… this is by phone. It’s different. I know I have to make a phone call today or tomorrow, but I know I can’t ring now because he’ll be out on the farm, and if I ring now I’ll probably interrupt their evening meal or their family Bible readings, and now it’s too late, and now he might be at work, and… oh. I was supposed to call him the day before yesterday. Oops. I want to drop my car off for a service in Ballarat when I head down to Melbourne later this week, but that takes ringing them to make a booking. I should have done this in the middle of last week, when I planned to go down. All it takes is ringing their number, saying “can I book my car in for a service, drop off on the 13ᵗʰ or 14ᵗʰ, collection on the 15ᵗʰ”. For some reason that I can’t express, I haven’t made that phone call, and it’s probably too late now. I guess that DPF light will just continue flashing for a while longer. I could go on and on. It’s quite ridiculous how much trouble I have caused myself (and others, sometimes) just because I don’t like making phone calls. I’ve delayed things that would benefit me for years in a couple of cases. Receiving phone calls isn’t my favourite, either. I’m not crash hot with email or letters either, but phones and text messages are significantly worse. Phone call quality used to be fairly terrible, and I think that helped make it more of an ordeal too. That excuse is mostly gone now. If you don’t mind, or like, phones, you might be surprised just how many people are quite averse to making phone calls, some to the point of hating it with the passion of perhaps not a thousand suns, but at least a brown dwarf or two. Five or six of my seven siblings are in much the same boat as me, and my parents don’t like phones either. A couple of my siblings, and multiple other people I’ve talked with, find they more or less forget what they were going to talk about as soon as the call connects, and so it becomes an ordeal where they have to write a detailed list of what they want to talk about before dialing, or else their mind is just blank. But there is yet hope for me: I’m setting myself up as the local IT guy in my rural area, in significant part to force myself to deal with people more. Computers are easy, they do what I tell them to do, and I’m even pretty good at telling them the right thing to do; but people are what actually matter in life. I’m waiting for the return of Jesus and the establishment of God’s kingdom on earth, and I don’t think we’ll need software then. Well, a bloke rang me yesterday, I answered, and today I did my first job, and even got paid straight away.
- 5y ago