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>For what do we optimize actually? For the working class? For human lives? I'm not 100% sure of the answer to this, and I don't think anyone is, but as a resid

>For what do we optimize actually? For the working class? For human lives? I'm not 100% sure of the answer to this, and I don't think anyone is, but as a resident of Melbourne, AU (world's most locked down city!), I can categorically state that destroying the quality of life for an entire society just so that a small percentage of vulnerable people can prolong their life for a few years is absolutely not the answer. It's not even a young vs. old thing at this stage. People aged 60+ (who were already lonely before) have suffered just the same as we have and I'm sure would have a very similar opinion to the rest of society.

Pyramus 5y ago
> that a small percentage of vulnerable people can prolong their life for a few years What do you even mean? The population-weighted infection fatality rate is somewhere around 0.8% (for vanilla SARS-CoV-2), can you even imagine what that would mean in terms of deaths alone? We are not even talking about hospitalisations or severe cases or chronic disease, or the collapse of critical infrastructure and the economy. I don't get this "Covid is just a problem for the old and weak" rhetoric, is that the society you want to live in?
- AussieWog93 5y ago
  Is 0.8% of people dying really worse than 100% of people enduring two years of crushing misery? Call it cold, but I'd rather live in a society where we throw the old and weak under the bus rather than make life unbearable for all. Hell, I suspect even if I were old and weak I would have rather died surrounded by my family and friends in 2020 instead of gone through two years of isolation only to die alone in 2022.
LouisSayers 5y ago
Not to mention having all the gyms shut and not being able to do many of the things that help to keep people physically and mentally healthy as well. It seems that there's been little effort or focus on how to cater for increased hospitalisations, or problem solving on how to ensure there are enough people trained to handle covid patients. The only tools available are vaccines and lockdowns... The rules are ridiculous - for example you have to wear a mask stepping inside a bar but as soon as you are seated you don't need one. You have to wear a mask to check in at the gym but as soon as you are in the gym you don't need one. Everyone needs to check in with a QR code... for what reason I really don't know (assuming it's "just incase" a new variant emerges, but half suspect it's just a psychological trick to remind is of covid 24/7)... I get that a small percentage of people get very sick and may die (and we should protect those people) but the way things are is just ridiculous and is a bunch of red tape that at this stage I don't think is really helping to do anything except keep people obedient and in constant fear.

Pyramus 5y ago

> that a small percentage of vulnerable people can prolong their life for a few years What do you even mean? The population-weighted infection fatality rate is somewhere around 0.8% (for vanilla SARS-CoV-2), can you even imagine what that would mean in terms of deaths alone? We are not even talking about hospitalisations or severe cases or chronic disease, or the collapse of critical infrastructure and the economy. I don't get this "Covid is just a problem for the old and weak" rhetoric, is that the society you want to live in?

AussieWog93 5y ago
Is 0.8% of people dying really worse than 100% of people enduring two years of crushing misery? Call it cold, but I'd rather live in a society where we throw the old and weak under the bus rather than make life unbearable for all. Hell, I suspect even if I were old and weak I would have rather died surrounded by my family and friends in 2020 instead of gone through two years of isolation only to die alone in 2022.

LouisSayers 5y ago

Not to mention having all the gyms shut and not being able to do many of the things that help to keep people physically and mentally healthy as well. It seems that there's been little effort or focus on how to cater for increased hospitalisations, or problem solving on how to ensure there are enough people trained to handle covid patients. The only tools available are vaccines and lockdowns... The rules are ridiculous - for example you have to wear a mask stepping inside a bar but as soon as you are seated you don't need one. You have to wear a mask to check in at the gym but as soon as you are in the gym you don't need one. Everyone needs to check in with a QR code... for what reason I really don't know (assuming it's "just incase" a new variant emerges, but half suspect it's just a psychological trick to remind is of covid 24/7)... I get that a small percentage of people get very sick and may die (and we should protect those people) but the way things are is just ridiculous and is a bunch of red tape that at this stage I don't think is really helping to do anything except keep people obedient and in constant fear.