5 ms·

Crazy what happens when you decide to freeload off a stranger’s code who you have no contract or agreement with whatsoever, beyond a license you must accept to

by zaroth 5y ago

Crazy what happens when you decide to freeload off a stranger’s code who you have no contract or agreement with whatsoever, beyond a license you must accept to use the software which disclaims any warranty whatsoever, even fitness for any purpose. I have zero sympathy for anyone complaining they were hurt by this. I think Marak is teaching an important and principled lesson here.

balls187 5y ago
> I think Marak is teaching an important and principled lesson here. What lesson is that?
- darthrupert 5y ago
  Never rely on the Javascript community/ecosystem.
- obviousanswer9 5y ago
  - greggman3 5y ago
    > these trillion dollar corporations just take and take and never give, Which trillion dollar corporations are these? A quick google says "Apple, Microsoft, Alphabet, Amazon, Telsa, Meta, NVidia, and Berkshire Hathaway" are the the only trillion dollar companies Except for the last one all of those companies give back vast amounts of open source support. All you using VSCode for free, that's Microsoft's payback. Oh, and Microsoft pays for NPM hosting and github, also Typescript, C#, F#, .NET. Hardly not giving anything back. Apple gives Swift, Clang, LLVM, Webkit to name a few. Alphabet, Go, Chrome (which also means Electron on which VSCode is running), Android, and plenty of others. Meta provides React, Redux. Not sure what open source Tesla gives back but they have given their patents (https://www.tesla.com/blog/all-our-patent-are-belong-you https://www.tesla.com/blog/all-our-patent-are-belong-you). Nvidia gives away tons of open source as well (https://developer.nvidia.com/open-source https://developer.nvidia.com/open-source)
    - obviousanswer9 5y ago
  - lenkite 5y ago
    The author should first change his LICENSE before he does crap like this. Make sure the terms of the license upfront state that "billion/trillion dollar companies" are not permitted to use this library. Stop using the MIT license for your hactivist project.
    - Taurenking 5y ago
    - obviousanswer9 5y ago
  - balls187 5y ago
    Most of what you wrote has merit, but I dont believe the author was trying to impart much of what you wrote. I let my comments inline with yours. > a) blindly 'updating' and deploying code without testing is a horrible idea This is important risk factor each organization should be aware of. Though he wasn't trying to convey this, it was merely a byproduct. > b) these trillion dollar corporations just take and take and never give, and boy do they whine and cry when the devs don't 'hold up their end of the deal' and keep turning out perfect, fully tested software for free This was the intent, but anecdotally, Google, Amazon, Apple, Microsoft, Twitter, Meta, Stripe, Netflix, all contribute to open source. > c) 'the source is open so anyone can look at it and therefore it's bug free' is and always has been a mentally retarded philosophy Since the source is open, it must be bug free is a flawed conclusion. Again, not the lesson Marak was imparting. > d) the software deployment process as it's currently practiced is horribly flawed I don't think that is accurate. > e) these people ought to count their blessings that the code is flawed in such an obvious and immediately detectable rather than subtle and devious and much more destructive way I can't imagine a more destructive way that would result in the catastrophe one is expecting. Should Marak have been more malicious, having a myriad of well funded corporations targeting him would not be fun. and last but not least: > f) giving control over one's code to evil microsoft via github is an incredibly stupid idea, as such authority WILL be abused by the evil scumbags. Another tradeoff organizations should understand.
    - obviousanswer9 5y ago
      [dead]
  - crate_barre 5y ago
    The large Fortune 500 company probably isn’t even paying the lowly developer enough who took the time to find a terminal colors package anyway. You really think this is the person that’s going to be able to lobby for dev budget? They are literally trying to keep their own god damn job. It might be time we have a package marketplace like Steam that companies can subscribe to and independent developers can make some money via the marketplace.
redwolf22 5y ago
Lesson learned: - Don't rely on open source software. It's all FUD. Always use software from companys you can sue by a contract. - If you need an an open source library to color your console output, pay them 6 figures per year. SCNR
Chris2048 5y ago
freeload is a fairly loaded term. "disclaims any warranty" isn't the same as malicious action; I don't have to pay you if your house burns down if you don't have an insurance policy (contract) with me but I'm still liable if I commit arson. Also, AFAIK, Marak is not the original author; Is he also a freeloader for attempting to commercialise this code? > teaching an important and principled lesson here The history of this issue speaks differently to their intentions, but even so, there is a way to "teach lessons" and that's by doing something alarming but harmless. AFAIK Marak wanted to cause harm, and acted in a way to do so.

by zaroth 5y ago

balls187 5y ago

> I think Marak is teaching an important and principled lesson here. What lesson is that?

darthrupert 5y ago
Never rely on the Javascript community/ecosystem.
obviousanswer9 5y ago
- greggman3 5y ago
  > these trillion dollar corporations just take and take and never give, Which trillion dollar corporations are these? A quick google says "Apple, Microsoft, Alphabet, Amazon, Telsa, Meta, NVidia, and Berkshire Hathaway" are the the only trillion dollar companies Except for the last one all of those companies give back vast amounts of open source support. All you using VSCode for free, that's Microsoft's payback. Oh, and Microsoft pays for NPM hosting and github, also Typescript, C#, F#, .NET. Hardly not giving anything back. Apple gives Swift, Clang, LLVM, Webkit to name a few. Alphabet, Go, Chrome (which also means Electron on which VSCode is running), Android, and plenty of others. Meta provides React, Redux. Not sure what open source Tesla gives back but they have given their patents (https://www.tesla.com/blog/all-our-patent-are-belong-you https://www.tesla.com/blog/all-our-patent-are-belong-you). Nvidia gives away tons of open source as well (https://developer.nvidia.com/open-source https://developer.nvidia.com/open-source)
  - obviousanswer9 5y ago
- lenkite 5y ago
  The author should first change his LICENSE before he does crap like this. Make sure the terms of the license upfront state that "billion/trillion dollar companies" are not permitted to use this library. Stop using the MIT license for your hactivist project.
  - Taurenking 5y ago
  - obviousanswer9 5y ago
- balls187 5y ago
  Most of what you wrote has merit, but I dont believe the author was trying to impart much of what you wrote. I let my comments inline with yours. > a) blindly 'updating' and deploying code without testing is a horrible idea This is important risk factor each organization should be aware of. Though he wasn't trying to convey this, it was merely a byproduct. > b) these trillion dollar corporations just take and take and never give, and boy do they whine and cry when the devs don't 'hold up their end of the deal' and keep turning out perfect, fully tested software for free This was the intent, but anecdotally, Google, Amazon, Apple, Microsoft, Twitter, Meta, Stripe, Netflix, all contribute to open source. > c) 'the source is open so anyone can look at it and therefore it's bug free' is and always has been a mentally retarded philosophy Since the source is open, it must be bug free is a flawed conclusion. Again, not the lesson Marak was imparting. > d) the software deployment process as it's currently practiced is horribly flawed I don't think that is accurate. > e) these people ought to count their blessings that the code is flawed in such an obvious and immediately detectable rather than subtle and devious and much more destructive way I can't imagine a more destructive way that would result in the catastrophe one is expecting. Should Marak have been more malicious, having a myriad of well funded corporations targeting him would not be fun. and last but not least: > f) giving control over one's code to evil microsoft via github is an incredibly stupid idea, as such authority WILL be abused by the evil scumbags. Another tradeoff organizations should understand.
  - obviousanswer9 5y ago
    [dead]
- crate_barre 5y ago
  The large Fortune 500 company probably isn’t even paying the lowly developer enough who took the time to find a terminal colors package anyway. You really think this is the person that’s going to be able to lobby for dev budget? They are literally trying to keep their own god damn job. It might be time we have a package marketplace like Steam that companies can subscribe to and independent developers can make some money via the marketplace.

redwolf22 5y ago

Lesson learned: - Don't rely on open source software. It's all FUD. Always use software from companys you can sue by a contract. - If you need an an open source library to color your console output, pay them 6 figures per year. SCNR

Chris2048 5y ago

freeload is a fairly loaded term. "disclaims any warranty" isn't the same as malicious action; I don't have to pay you if your house burns down if you don't have an insurance policy (contract) with me but I'm still liable if I commit arson. Also, AFAIK, Marak is not the original author; Is he also a freeloader for attempting to commercialise this code? > teaching an important and principled lesson here The history of this issue speaks differently to their intentions, but even so, there is a way to "teach lessons" and that's by doing something alarming but harmless. AFAIK Marak wanted to cause harm, and acted in a way to do so.