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Every idea of "Babies can't _________" is automatically suspect for me. I grew up in a culture of denial and this language fits the pattern. We've been nurturin

Every idea of "Babies can't _________" is automatically suspect for me. I grew up in a culture of denial and this language fits the pattern. We've been nurturing a child for 3 years from the assumption that they're capable of all the things people say they can't do. And wouldn't you know it, they're showing us time and again they very well can. Babies can give consent and often do. People struggling with diaper changes? Probably not looking for consent from the baby or letting them know what's happening. This child has learned we care about what they want. Baby fights taking a bath? This one did 5 times. After that, mom got in the tub and we sat on the edge watching her. We were all in the tub within 5 minutes. Baths are now totally voluntary. Babies can't feel pain? Nonsense, of course. We took the advice of a native medicine woman and taught them to feel the pain and stay with it. This was important for the next point. Too young to learn from natural consequences? Bullshit. We let them stay in a diaper until they let us change it. It only took a few painful diaper rashes between age 1 and 2 before they learned what happens. It was really something to experience them crying from pain and when we asked if they wanted us to do anything, they cried saying "No, just let me feel it!" So they cried on my shoulder a couple minutes, said the pain faded, and then asked to get in the tub. Children need to be bundled in the cold? Definitely not! That keeps the body from learning how to regulate temperature. We let them go outside wearing whatever and monitor them for shivering. We learned that in colder parts of the world people watch children for the second shiver. The theory is the first one is the body relaxing into the cold and the second is the body starting to tense up to create more warmth because the relaxed state has reached its present limit. We were just out in a park for an hour before sunset in 50 degree weather. They didn't start shivering until a few minutes after sunset and the second shiver didn't come for another 10 mins. It was then that they said yes to an offer of clothes. We live in a largely adultist world where science has developed with numerous blindspots for people in minority classes, including children. It makes more sense to abandon conventional wisdom around children these days because much of what humans learned over millenia about humanitng has been lost through the obliteration of the cultures carrying that wisdom. The approach I take is to learn about feelings and needs, observe deeply, experiment gently, learn from cultures facing extreme versions of whatever is being experienced, learn from indigenous people, and trust (but verify) children are infinitely capable. This allows for maximal growth and a natural discovery of limits, rather than someone else unnaturally limiting learning experiences. And normalize repair and flexibility, not fear of pain /injury or rules. Anarchism is closer to nature than all other forms of government, so it makes sense to implement anarchism in the home.

xwolfi 5y ago
I agree to a point - the past is a good source of inspiration in how to raise a child, since it's been so long and we're all the results. But what's your take on slapping a tantrum-throwing child ? Something I think was very popular before and is still in the nativist cultures you describe (and I fondly remember my father solving the problem that way and me learning the limits and feeling I deserved it eventually) that is now hard to do without feeling you cheated or did something wrong. I know I did twice in my daughter's short life, to show the limits (like she was hitting me violently for some random tantrum and would not stop whatever patient approach we tried so I showed her that was totally out of bound by giving her a nice slap - something my dad swore by) and she started telling people around about it and instead of support for the parent and "you probably deserved it" for the child like I had as a child, people panicked as if I was a child molester so I won't do it again (and actually found distraction strategies that we both find hilarious now and disarm any tantrum so... probably was wrong not to try harder indeed)
- crawfordcomeaux 5y ago
  It really depends on the culture. Discernment is still really necessary. I've read a few things that suggest the Inuit have the most gentle approach to children. With respect to showing them limits, what you're describing aren't natural limits. It sounds like you didn't reach a limit beyond your control, but made a calculated decision. That's not a natural limit; that's an arbitrarily chosen one. Gentle parenting suggests offering cuddles, hugs, gentle restraint (I haven't looked into what this means), and other forms of emotional connection. It's not about patient permissiveness, but connecting with the emotional state of the child and holding space for them to feel their feelings. Also, something I often see and hear is people getting distracted by the behavior instead of connecting with the needs being expressed. Usually, there was something that preceded the behavior. We had grandparents over and unbeknownst to me, grandma (who loves making mean jokes) threw a diaper at the child. The next day, they threw something at her. Everyone focused on the act of throwing it instead of what came before the throwing. Kids do what they learn from others. If they're taught to emotionally/verbally hit, they'll learn that hurting by physically hitting others is a way to accomplish whatever the verbal/emotional hits are doing as soon as they learn hitting hurts, too. They're not stupid and this is not a hard logical leap anyway. Also, anything that gets more focused attention than the norm will be repeated. That's why giving deep quality attention and connection is the easiest way to prevent unwanted behaviors. There's no need to act out if not acting out gets the job done. Otherwise, act out. There's a lot more to this and I'm still learning myself. Things to search for along these lines are gentle parenting and mindful parenting. On a related note, did you read about the dev who crashed thousands of apps and sites today? That person clearly has needs going unmet. I wonder if anyone's reached out to them and asked what they need yet. Think I'll do that next.

xwolfi 5y ago

I agree to a point - the past is a good source of inspiration in how to raise a child, since it's been so long and we're all the results. But what's your take on slapping a tantrum-throwing child ? Something I think was very popular before and is still in the nativist cultures you describe (and I fondly remember my father solving the problem that way and me learning the limits and feeling I deserved it eventually) that is now hard to do without feeling you cheated or did something wrong. I know I did twice in my daughter's short life, to show the limits (like she was hitting me violently for some random tantrum and would not stop whatever patient approach we tried so I showed her that was totally out of bound by giving her a nice slap - something my dad swore by) and she started telling people around about it and instead of support for the parent and "you probably deserved it" for the child like I had as a child, people panicked as if I was a child molester so I won't do it again (and actually found distraction strategies that we both find hilarious now and disarm any tantrum so... probably was wrong not to try harder indeed)

crawfordcomeaux 5y ago
It really depends on the culture. Discernment is still really necessary. I've read a few things that suggest the Inuit have the most gentle approach to children. With respect to showing them limits, what you're describing aren't natural limits. It sounds like you didn't reach a limit beyond your control, but made a calculated decision. That's not a natural limit; that's an arbitrarily chosen one. Gentle parenting suggests offering cuddles, hugs, gentle restraint (I haven't looked into what this means), and other forms of emotional connection. It's not about patient permissiveness, but connecting with the emotional state of the child and holding space for them to feel their feelings. Also, something I often see and hear is people getting distracted by the behavior instead of connecting with the needs being expressed. Usually, there was something that preceded the behavior. We had grandparents over and unbeknownst to me, grandma (who loves making mean jokes) threw a diaper at the child. The next day, they threw something at her. Everyone focused on the act of throwing it instead of what came before the throwing. Kids do what they learn from others. If they're taught to emotionally/verbally hit, they'll learn that hurting by physically hitting others is a way to accomplish whatever the verbal/emotional hits are doing as soon as they learn hitting hurts, too. They're not stupid and this is not a hard logical leap anyway. Also, anything that gets more focused attention than the norm will be repeated. That's why giving deep quality attention and connection is the easiest way to prevent unwanted behaviors. There's no need to act out if not acting out gets the job done. Otherwise, act out. There's a lot more to this and I'm still learning myself. Things to search for along these lines are gentle parenting and mindful parenting. On a related note, did you read about the dev who crashed thousands of apps and sites today? That person clearly has needs going unmet. I wonder if anyone's reached out to them and asked what they need yet. Think I'll do that next.