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The petition itself is marred by a rather confused statement of its aims which seem to cover teaching children to code and doing something about the gender gap

by ErrantX 15y ago

The petition itself is marred by a rather confused statement of its aims which seem to cover teaching children to code and doing something about the gender gap in IT. This was my first thought too. A noble aim to be sure, but it would be nice to see it cast with broader aims!

philbarr 15y ago
I agree, although that didn't stop me from signing the petition. When I was at school I was told, "I.T. isn't a real subject", and was prevented from taking it. It was seen as a drop-out's subject. That kind of attitude has to change, and although I think the wording of the petition could be better, I'll sign anything in the hope of getting this issue noticed.
- ErrantX 15y ago
  although that didn't stop me from signing the petition. Agreed :)
- robertskmiles 15y ago
  But I.T. isn't a real subject, at least not how I was taught it. The mandatory course I took at school was essentially a certificate that says "This person can work the basics of the Microsoft Office software suite". No-one in the class didn't know everything already, since we already used Word, Powerpoint and Excel for our other work. If they taught some actual Computer Science rather than just computer use, it would be a real subject in my opinion.
  - ErrantX 15y ago
    I think the former has value to people with no aspirations in CS (a lot of value, really, everyone needs basic IT skills in the modern world). But you're right... they need to divide them - so teach "Basic IT Skills" (or w/e) and Computer Science as separate courses. A lot of the kids I teach are really put off by their IT classes because it is all about competency and not creativity.
    - omarqureshi 15y ago
      They used to teach computing as an A level at my Sixth Form - however, it really was poorly taught. No coverage of the material on the test nor was there anything of substance done for the "project" at all (which for most of us turned out to be a horrible access database). Teaching needs to be improved around the CS curriculum (at the secondary school and college level) before we go about getting kids to do a really shitty CS course. Our year was the last year to do a Computing A Level, quite a shame.
    - pointyhat 15y ago
      Agreed with the divide. Technically, back in the early 90's we did "office studies", "mathematics" and "technology" which each had overlapping portions of relevance. It's still like that today. It's just with the ubiquity of computing, most people just don't give a shit about writing software any more because they don't have to when doing useful work.
    - demallien 15y ago
      "I think the former has value to people with no aspirations in CS (a lot of value, really, everyone needs basic IT skills in the modern world)." Well yes, but let me tell you a little story. One of the things that I get to notice, as a woman, which my male colleagues don't, is just how repetitive womens' work often is in the office. I have a lot of female friends that are secretaries, receptionists, assistants etc, which I don't think is true of most men working in IT. And I see how much of the daily grind of what those women do could be automated, if only they knew how to put together macros, or even just how to make use of tools like Automator on the Mac. I have tried teaching macro programming to a couple of them, but they get stuck on the simplest of programming concepts. What's a variable? How can I expresss a complex algorithm given a small set of primitives? Flow control, what's that?!?! I can't help thinking that if they had learned these very simple basic concepts when they were back learning about how to set tabs in Word, that they would be many times more effective in their office jobs today. So even if someone has no interest in CS as a career, the reality is that these days many, if not a majority, of jobs could be helped by it - running a small business, office work, etc. But if you leave it until the person is an adult out in the workforce, they often won't want to learn.
jgrahamc 15y ago
And it's horribly poorly written, which will likely limit the number of people who sign it. But it has the most traction (there's another one that has one signature).

by ErrantX 15y ago

philbarr 15y ago

I agree, although that didn't stop me from signing the petition. When I was at school I was told, "I.T. isn't a real subject", and was prevented from taking it. It was seen as a drop-out's subject. That kind of attitude has to change, and although I think the wording of the petition could be better, I'll sign anything in the hope of getting this issue noticed.

ErrantX 15y ago
although that didn't stop me from signing the petition. Agreed :)
robertskmiles 15y ago
But I.T. isn't a real subject, at least not how I was taught it. The mandatory course I took at school was essentially a certificate that says "This person can work the basics of the Microsoft Office software suite". No-one in the class didn't know everything already, since we already used Word, Powerpoint and Excel for our other work. If they taught some actual Computer Science rather than just computer use, it would be a real subject in my opinion.
- ErrantX 15y ago
  I think the former has value to people with no aspirations in CS (a lot of value, really, everyone needs basic IT skills in the modern world). But you're right... they need to divide them - so teach "Basic IT Skills" (or w/e) and Computer Science as separate courses. A lot of the kids I teach are really put off by their IT classes because it is all about competency and not creativity.
  - omarqureshi 15y ago
    They used to teach computing as an A level at my Sixth Form - however, it really was poorly taught. No coverage of the material on the test nor was there anything of substance done for the "project" at all (which for most of us turned out to be a horrible access database). Teaching needs to be improved around the CS curriculum (at the secondary school and college level) before we go about getting kids to do a really shitty CS course. Our year was the last year to do a Computing A Level, quite a shame.
  - pointyhat 15y ago
    Agreed with the divide. Technically, back in the early 90's we did "office studies", "mathematics" and "technology" which each had overlapping portions of relevance. It's still like that today. It's just with the ubiquity of computing, most people just don't give a shit about writing software any more because they don't have to when doing useful work.
  - demallien 15y ago
    "I think the former has value to people with no aspirations in CS (a lot of value, really, everyone needs basic IT skills in the modern world)." Well yes, but let me tell you a little story. One of the things that I get to notice, as a woman, which my male colleagues don't, is just how repetitive womens' work often is in the office. I have a lot of female friends that are secretaries, receptionists, assistants etc, which I don't think is true of most men working in IT. And I see how much of the daily grind of what those women do could be automated, if only they knew how to put together macros, or even just how to make use of tools like Automator on the Mac. I have tried teaching macro programming to a couple of them, but they get stuck on the simplest of programming concepts. What's a variable? How can I expresss a complex algorithm given a small set of primitives? Flow control, what's that?!?! I can't help thinking that if they had learned these very simple basic concepts when they were back learning about how to set tabs in Word, that they would be many times more effective in their office jobs today. So even if someone has no interest in CS as a career, the reality is that these days many, if not a majority, of jobs could be helped by it - running a small business, office work, etc. But if you leave it until the person is an adult out in the workforce, they often won't want to learn.

jgrahamc 15y ago

And it's horribly poorly written, which will likely limit the number of people who sign it. But it has the most traction (there's another one that has one signature).