8 ms·

I feel like this effect is multiplied because, when I’m tired, I am much more likely to want fast food because it takes less effort, not just because it’s greas

I feel like this effect is multiplied because, when I’m tired, I am much more likely to want fast food because it takes less effort, not just because it’s greasy and salty.

mrslave 5y ago
Similar here but with sugar. I feel like I just need some fast-burning carbs to power the brain for just one more hour of work before I can rest.
- marcyb5st 5y ago
  Have you tried doing keto or intermittent fasting? My energy levels are much more constant and I generally feel better and more productive. For instance, I don't get the after lunch drowsiness that forced me to have more coffee in the afternoon. The downside is that these approaches are either more expensive (processed carbs are by far the cheapest option in any supermarket), more time consuming, or harder to get into (keto flu can be a massive pain in the butt). However, they are sustainable and that's why I didn't use the word "diet" that for me is something limited in time. In fact, I have been doing some form of fasting since shortly after covid started because being stuck at home I noticed I was snacking way too much out of boredom.
  - mrslave 5y ago
    Funny you should mention it. I am back on this band-wagon but in the context of a crash diet (Michael Mosley - Fast 800). The precise parameters are low-carb/keto, a narrow eating window of about 6 hours, and exercise in the gentle cardio range (though I have trouble keeping to this with some sports and go a little harder than recommended). Do this for 8 weeks. This has worked well for me in the past: I lost 10kg about 2 years ago and largely kept it off, but I failed to persist to my ideal weight. Now is the time! With respect to adaptation, a few days of "must resist" mentality against the temptations of sugar, snacks, and unnecessarily big meals, and I'm already comfortable. Other people can eat unhealthy fats & sugars around me and I'm not tempted. I think the long-term recommendation is to keep with the diet but increase calories once the desired weight has been lost. I'm not sure. I'll re-read the book once I'm happy with my body composition. (It's a really light paperback.) One question I have yet to answer is: what do I substitute for untoasted muesli? I still eat less than a cup with a lot of berries & a few nuts for "breakfast" (12-2 PM, hunger depending).
    - marcyb5st 5y ago
      Not sure about muesli. In Switzerland we have this option: https://www.ketoshop.ch/collections/konfi-mueesli-aufstriche/products/zimt-knuspermuesli-simply-keto-keto-mueesli-500g https://www.ketoshop.ch/collections/konfi-mueesli-aufstriche... but as you can see they are crazy expensive. I tried them once and they definitely taste good, but it is just too much money for me. For my breakfast I go now with natural skyr jogurt with a bit of sweetener blended with a large coffee. And as I mentioned I mostly do intermittent fasting, so I am not super strict about the keto part of the equation.
  - wruza 5y ago
    Idk, I tried keto and lived through keto-flu, but it just doesn't give me enough energy. My head hurts after few hours of work and only a cup of sugared tea helps it (I tried zero carb for a couple+ of months). It's either a personal thing, or keto is for those who lift weights, not abstraction levels.
    - geertj 5y ago
      I work in tech and have been on keto for the last 5 months. Mental energy and clarity are definitely up for me, and I lost 30 lbs. I struggled a bit about a month ago to keep up. My wife and I started using the diet doctor app (not affiliated) to cook more satisfying and diverse keto dinners than before, and we’ve been going pretty strong with it. Drawback is that we spend more money on food and more time on cooking (but we do it together to make it fun).
    - ralferoo 5y ago
      I've done keto a couple of times, with massive weight loss each time. The last time was 30kg in 6 months. The first time, I tried close to 0g carb as a goal. The second time, I was a bit more relaxed about it, had some yogurt (still very slow carbs, but some), peanuts (again, low but still some), olives, more veg than before. I was still comfortably under 50g-100g per day though, and lost more. But in each case, I never really had "keto flu" which everybody seems to complain about. I did get strongish hints from my body that I needed some carbs, which is normal at first as your body is used to having a ready supply of carbs, but this phase only lasts about a week. Rather than going cold turkey, I'd just have a SMALL amount of carbs, e.g. half a small chocolate bar, or whatever. Enough for my body to get the immediate "give me carbs now" that it neeeded, but not enough that I got a big insulin spike and disrupted the transition into keto. After about a week or so, the body doesn't really need carbs any more at all, although every now and then I'd set a sudden craving for something sweet. I found it worked best just to give in and have a small amount rather than going fully cold turkey on carbs. Probably it wasn't even carbs my body needed, but rather something else that my body associated with carby foods. For instance, I had to consciously increase my salt intake when eating primarily just meat, as I realised I wasn't getting enough, but it's so ubiquitous in processed carby foods that you don't realise how important it is.
  - bityard 5y ago
    I've been mostly keto for roughly the last nine years. It has been pretty much the best decision I ever made for my health. The hardest part about it continues to be the fact that it's largely misrepresented in the mainstream as a fad diet. And unfortunately when you go to research keto on the Internet, there is a staggering amount of bullshit to wade though. I feel like neither is a coincidence but I'll just leave it at that rather than get too political.
senectus1 5y ago
absolutely, I eat worse when I sleep less and the effect is doubled in winter. I really lay on the calorie rich "soul food" in winter as much as I try really hard not to.
- steve_adams_86 5y ago
  This is anecdotal but I find a couple things get me off of soul food kicks. One, exercise seems to keep me on the straight and narrow. I almost never drink, but when I did, running reduced it a ton. Today I find it increases my appetite for all varieties of foods. I still want the biscuits and gravy, but a carrot is super appealing to. As a result I’ll end up filling dietary space with a wider variety of food. I also find my eyes become more aligned with my stomach. As in my desire for a lot of food reduces and I’ll start eating more sensible amounts. Otherwise really prioritizing sleep makes a huge difference. In winter I tend to get bored because so little is going on, or so it seems. I can fall into habits of staying up too late trying to find something engaging to do. Of course, I rarely do. The hours fly by and suddenly I’m primed to get a terrible sleep. I try to make sure I go to bed earlier than I would in summer, then wake up early and experience first light and stuff. Like walk to work as the sun rises, walk to get a coffee outside if I’m already at work. Get fresh air and light nice and early. Anyway, just sharing in case you hadn’t tried these things and you’re curious about other experiences. I really struggle with eating way too much in winter.
  - senectus1 5y ago
    yeah exercise drops off for me in winter. this next winter i'm going to do something about that... I gained almost all that I'd lost in the last winter :-/
    - steve_adams_86 5y ago
      Ha, yeah… I’ve had my share of winters like that. I had a big string of them. Winter seems to be mostly a mental battle of getting past lethargy. Once you break through, the exercise is so easy. It’s like any other time. Your body switches on, your brain accepts what’s going on, you stop wanting to take it easy. Cold rain and air stops feeling so awful. Your body warms up, movement becomes less difficult. And you can really build momentum with that energy too. I think the key is taking small steps. When I finally succeeded in breaking the cycle it was because I finally set aside my ego and ran a 2km run and left it at that. Then a 3km run. And so on. It was so manageable, wore me down so little that I could run a couple day later, and as I broke the rust off and got myself into the habit I could actually handle it. This was after years and years of regularly running 10-30km effortlessly all year round. I guess I got pneumonia one summer and it threw me off terribly, I got lethargic, then inactive, then gained about 50lb over several years. Getting back to it was physically and mentally so hard. But yeah, letting myself take baby steps and not being ashamed of my loss of fitness seems like it was key. For anyone I imagine the mindset of “I’ll go run around the block and see how I feel” would probably yield a lot more runs than the mindset I had that I felt bad about not running, losing my fitness, didn’t want to subject myself to an hour of cold and suffering, didn’t have enough time, etc. None of that mattered. I suppose even getting up and going for a walk beats the hell out of sitting inside barely moving. Even if it isn’t way better, any amount is worth it. Good luck next year!
strikelaserclaw 5y ago
lack of sleep cause tiredness, tiredness causes you to reach for a cup of coffee, this makes you wired, being tired and wired almost causes me a sort of depressed excitation, where as if i drink coffee when i'm well rested i have an optimistic excitation. Optimistic excitation causes me to focus on the mental world to derive pleasure and pass time, like studying, depressed excitation causes me to want to get material pleasure like eating sugar, or fast food or drinking alcohol to pass time. I ultimately understand that coffee works best in conjunction with good rest, if you caffeinate to power through sleep depravation, you will notice that your ROI is severely diminished and worst of all you will most likely disrupt your sleep the next day. We in the modern world hate listening to our bodies, we try to do all sorts of things to get more out of our day, in the long term this might be the wrong way of looking at things.
brippalcharrid 5y ago
I have found that cutting all carbohydrates out of my diet (with the exception of Lactose, in milk) has caused my appetite to decrease when I have gotten tired late at night, which is the opposite of what I had experienced before.

I feel like this effect is multiplied because, when I’m tired, I am much more likely to want fast food because it takes less effort, not just because it’s greasy and salty.

mrslave 5y ago

Similar here but with sugar. I feel like I just need some fast-burning carbs to power the brain for just one more hour of work before I can rest.

marcyb5st 5y ago
Have you tried doing keto or intermittent fasting? My energy levels are much more constant and I generally feel better and more productive. For instance, I don't get the after lunch drowsiness that forced me to have more coffee in the afternoon. The downside is that these approaches are either more expensive (processed carbs are by far the cheapest option in any supermarket), more time consuming, or harder to get into (keto flu can be a massive pain in the butt). However, they are sustainable and that's why I didn't use the word "diet" that for me is something limited in time. In fact, I have been doing some form of fasting since shortly after covid started because being stuck at home I noticed I was snacking way too much out of boredom.
- mrslave 5y ago
  Funny you should mention it. I am back on this band-wagon but in the context of a crash diet (Michael Mosley - Fast 800). The precise parameters are low-carb/keto, a narrow eating window of about 6 hours, and exercise in the gentle cardio range (though I have trouble keeping to this with some sports and go a little harder than recommended). Do this for 8 weeks. This has worked well for me in the past: I lost 10kg about 2 years ago and largely kept it off, but I failed to persist to my ideal weight. Now is the time! With respect to adaptation, a few days of "must resist" mentality against the temptations of sugar, snacks, and unnecessarily big meals, and I'm already comfortable. Other people can eat unhealthy fats & sugars around me and I'm not tempted. I think the long-term recommendation is to keep with the diet but increase calories once the desired weight has been lost. I'm not sure. I'll re-read the book once I'm happy with my body composition. (It's a really light paperback.) One question I have yet to answer is: what do I substitute for untoasted muesli? I still eat less than a cup with a lot of berries & a few nuts for "breakfast" (12-2 PM, hunger depending).
  - marcyb5st 5y ago
    Not sure about muesli. In Switzerland we have this option: https://www.ketoshop.ch/collections/konfi-mueesli-aufstriche/products/zimt-knuspermuesli-simply-keto-keto-mueesli-500g https://www.ketoshop.ch/collections/konfi-mueesli-aufstriche... but as you can see they are crazy expensive. I tried them once and they definitely taste good, but it is just too much money for me. For my breakfast I go now with natural skyr jogurt with a bit of sweetener blended with a large coffee. And as I mentioned I mostly do intermittent fasting, so I am not super strict about the keto part of the equation.
- wruza 5y ago
  Idk, I tried keto and lived through keto-flu, but it just doesn't give me enough energy. My head hurts after few hours of work and only a cup of sugared tea helps it (I tried zero carb for a couple+ of months). It's either a personal thing, or keto is for those who lift weights, not abstraction levels.
  - geertj 5y ago
    I work in tech and have been on keto for the last 5 months. Mental energy and clarity are definitely up for me, and I lost 30 lbs. I struggled a bit about a month ago to keep up. My wife and I started using the diet doctor app (not affiliated) to cook more satisfying and diverse keto dinners than before, and we’ve been going pretty strong with it. Drawback is that we spend more money on food and more time on cooking (but we do it together to make it fun).
  - ralferoo 5y ago
    I've done keto a couple of times, with massive weight loss each time. The last time was 30kg in 6 months. The first time, I tried close to 0g carb as a goal. The second time, I was a bit more relaxed about it, had some yogurt (still very slow carbs, but some), peanuts (again, low but still some), olives, more veg than before. I was still comfortably under 50g-100g per day though, and lost more. But in each case, I never really had "keto flu" which everybody seems to complain about. I did get strongish hints from my body that I needed some carbs, which is normal at first as your body is used to having a ready supply of carbs, but this phase only lasts about a week. Rather than going cold turkey, I'd just have a SMALL amount of carbs, e.g. half a small chocolate bar, or whatever. Enough for my body to get the immediate "give me carbs now" that it neeeded, but not enough that I got a big insulin spike and disrupted the transition into keto. After about a week or so, the body doesn't really need carbs any more at all, although every now and then I'd set a sudden craving for something sweet. I found it worked best just to give in and have a small amount rather than going fully cold turkey on carbs. Probably it wasn't even carbs my body needed, but rather something else that my body associated with carby foods. For instance, I had to consciously increase my salt intake when eating primarily just meat, as I realised I wasn't getting enough, but it's so ubiquitous in processed carby foods that you don't realise how important it is.
- bityard 5y ago
  I've been mostly keto for roughly the last nine years. It has been pretty much the best decision I ever made for my health. The hardest part about it continues to be the fact that it's largely misrepresented in the mainstream as a fad diet. And unfortunately when you go to research keto on the Internet, there is a staggering amount of bullshit to wade though. I feel like neither is a coincidence but I'll just leave it at that rather than get too political.

senectus1 5y ago

absolutely, I eat worse when I sleep less and the effect is doubled in winter. I really lay on the calorie rich "soul food" in winter as much as I try really hard not to.

steve_adams_86 5y ago
This is anecdotal but I find a couple things get me off of soul food kicks. One, exercise seems to keep me on the straight and narrow. I almost never drink, but when I did, running reduced it a ton. Today I find it increases my appetite for all varieties of foods. I still want the biscuits and gravy, but a carrot is super appealing to. As a result I’ll end up filling dietary space with a wider variety of food. I also find my eyes become more aligned with my stomach. As in my desire for a lot of food reduces and I’ll start eating more sensible amounts. Otherwise really prioritizing sleep makes a huge difference. In winter I tend to get bored because so little is going on, or so it seems. I can fall into habits of staying up too late trying to find something engaging to do. Of course, I rarely do. The hours fly by and suddenly I’m primed to get a terrible sleep. I try to make sure I go to bed earlier than I would in summer, then wake up early and experience first light and stuff. Like walk to work as the sun rises, walk to get a coffee outside if I’m already at work. Get fresh air and light nice and early. Anyway, just sharing in case you hadn’t tried these things and you’re curious about other experiences. I really struggle with eating way too much in winter.
- senectus1 5y ago
  yeah exercise drops off for me in winter. this next winter i'm going to do something about that... I gained almost all that I'd lost in the last winter :-/
  - steve_adams_86 5y ago
    Ha, yeah… I’ve had my share of winters like that. I had a big string of them. Winter seems to be mostly a mental battle of getting past lethargy. Once you break through, the exercise is so easy. It’s like any other time. Your body switches on, your brain accepts what’s going on, you stop wanting to take it easy. Cold rain and air stops feeling so awful. Your body warms up, movement becomes less difficult. And you can really build momentum with that energy too. I think the key is taking small steps. When I finally succeeded in breaking the cycle it was because I finally set aside my ego and ran a 2km run and left it at that. Then a 3km run. And so on. It was so manageable, wore me down so little that I could run a couple day later, and as I broke the rust off and got myself into the habit I could actually handle it. This was after years and years of regularly running 10-30km effortlessly all year round. I guess I got pneumonia one summer and it threw me off terribly, I got lethargic, then inactive, then gained about 50lb over several years. Getting back to it was physically and mentally so hard. But yeah, letting myself take baby steps and not being ashamed of my loss of fitness seems like it was key. For anyone I imagine the mindset of “I’ll go run around the block and see how I feel” would probably yield a lot more runs than the mindset I had that I felt bad about not running, losing my fitness, didn’t want to subject myself to an hour of cold and suffering, didn’t have enough time, etc. None of that mattered. I suppose even getting up and going for a walk beats the hell out of sitting inside barely moving. Even if it isn’t way better, any amount is worth it. Good luck next year!

strikelaserclaw 5y ago

lack of sleep cause tiredness, tiredness causes you to reach for a cup of coffee, this makes you wired, being tired and wired almost causes me a sort of depressed excitation, where as if i drink coffee when i'm well rested i have an optimistic excitation. Optimistic excitation causes me to focus on the mental world to derive pleasure and pass time, like studying, depressed excitation causes me to want to get material pleasure like eating sugar, or fast food or drinking alcohol to pass time. I ultimately understand that coffee works best in conjunction with good rest, if you caffeinate to power through sleep depravation, you will notice that your ROI is severely diminished and worst of all you will most likely disrupt your sleep the next day. We in the modern world hate listening to our bodies, we try to do all sorts of things to get more out of our day, in the long term this might be the wrong way of looking at things.

brippalcharrid 5y ago

I have found that cutting all carbohydrates out of my diet (with the exception of Lactose, in milk) has caused my appetite to decrease when I have gotten tired late at night, which is the opposite of what I had experienced before.