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> Getting a lawyer involved will straighten things out fast. Upwork should eat the loss, no question. It'll easily cost Upwork more than 12k in time and resourc

> Getting a lawyer involved will straighten things out fast. Upwork should eat the loss, no question. It'll easily cost Upwork more than 12k in time and resources if they try to defend it. This may work with smaller companies that don’t want to have in-house counsel to engage in lengthy legal debates, but it’s not actually very effective against big companies with corporate counsel and clear-cut contracts. Unless you think you have an angle to show the upwork contracts 1) Don’t have any provisions covering this situation (extremely unlikely) 2) Are unenforceable due to specific laws Then it’s a dead-end to sue Upwork. You have to sue Robin, not Upwork. > It'll cost you a few hundred USD at minimum but it'll be worth it. Nope. Suing corporations with corporate counsel and well-tested contracts is not cheap. You might get a letter from a lawyer for a couple hundred, but then you’re just going to get a letter back from their lawyers. They will likely also threaten to collect on the reversed charges to raise the stakes. Don’t sue Upwork with a bargain lawyer. Sue Robin, the client, to collect payment.

hajile 5y ago
Writing severely one sided contracts can be cause for a judge to throw them out (unconscionable contracts). My understanding is that lack of bargaining power and understanding is the usual reason for this ruling. Pitting a megacorp with loads of lawyers vs a self-employed freelancer is definitely the right environment. The freelancer can’t possibly vet clients payment methods. A contract holding them financially responsible for the big corporation’s mistakes that they can’t prevent or even review seems like a textbook example of this. The question is if this freelancer (or a reasonable person in their position) would sign a contract like that if they knew what it could cost. I don’t think anything would. Upwork certainly would not.
- gruez 5y ago
  > Writing severely one sided contracts can be cause for a judge to throw them out (unconscionable contracts). You still need to convince a judge that, which means lengthy court trial. Also, I suspect the law is slightly more complicated than "it seems pretty unfair to a bunch of HN readers so the contract is unconscionable", which means tons of billable hours searching up relevant court cases.

hajile 5y ago

Writing severely one sided contracts can be cause for a judge to throw them out (unconscionable contracts). My understanding is that lack of bargaining power and understanding is the usual reason for this ruling. Pitting a megacorp with loads of lawyers vs a self-employed freelancer is definitely the right environment. The freelancer can’t possibly vet clients payment methods. A contract holding them financially responsible for the big corporation’s mistakes that they can’t prevent or even review seems like a textbook example of this. The question is if this freelancer (or a reasonable person in their position) would sign a contract like that if they knew what it could cost. I don’t think anything would. Upwork certainly would not.

gruez 5y ago
> Writing severely one sided contracts can be cause for a judge to throw them out (unconscionable contracts). You still need to convince a judge that, which means lengthy court trial. Also, I suspect the law is slightly more complicated than "it seems pretty unfair to a bunch of HN readers so the contract is unconscionable", which means tons of billable hours searching up relevant court cases.