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The anti-vax movement isn't just right-wing. Blacks are the most under-vaccinated demographic. And it is important to distinguish those who are against mandat

The anti-vax movement isn't just right-wing. Blacks are the most under-vaccinated demographic. And it is important to distinguish those who are against mandates from those who are against the vaccine.

deleted 5y ago
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ZeroGravitas 5y ago
I think this is misleading. It's very notable that the states where the racial gap is highest are a) not doing very well on mass vaccination b) Republican https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/covid-vaccine-tracker-global-distribution/us-vaccine-demographics.html https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/covid-vaccine-tracker-glo... So I think it's fair to ask if these people have been denied the vaccine more than they've rejected it. Meanwhile, the stats fairly clearly show political affiliation to be a bigger factor: > According to a report from the Kaiser Family Foundation (KFF) released on Sept. 28, gaps in vaccination rates across racial and ethnic groups have virtually disappeared—while gaps reflecting political affiliation have widened substantially.
- batch12 5y ago
  Where are vaccines being denied? I haven't seen this as a thing even in the reddest states.
  - ZeroGravitas 5y ago
    I think you're thinking of a very literal "I'm here for my vaccine" ""No, denied due to skin color" when I'm thinking of "We should spend some money and put some collective effort in to ensure everyone has quick and easy access to the vaccine, especially the poor and the vulnerable" "No, we’ll follow the same general plan as for voting, long lines at a few awkward places where lots of black people live, lots of locations with short waits where white people live".
    - batch12 5y ago
      Nope, still haven't seen this as a thing. There are still drugstores and doctors offices which have vaccines in these poor areas that give the shots for free. Not getting the shot is a deliberate choice and it's not racism that is blocking people from getting it. People of every race are smart and enabled enough to get this shot if they want it.
      - ZeroGravitas 5y ago
        Interesting that COVID vaccine provision is less racist than the average healthcare provision: > NAM found that “racial and ethnic minorities receive lower-quality health care than white people—even when insurance status, income, age, and severity of conditions are comparable.” By “lower-quality health care,” NAM meant the concrete, inferior care that physicians give their black patients. NAM reported that minority persons are less likely than white persons to be given appropriate cardiac care, to receive kidney dialysis or transplants, and to receive the best treatments for stroke, cancer, or AIDS. It concluded by describing an “uncomfortable reality”: “some people in the United States were more likely to die from cancer, heart disease, and diabetes simply because of their race or ethnicity, not just because they lack access to health care.” But I wouldn't want to doubt your anectodal evidence that black people are "smart" enough to not face institutional racism.
        batch12 5y ago
        Are you saying that CVS has been turning away brown people who want covid shots or are you just parroting rhetoric without really knowing or looking into the true root cause of this issue? Yes. My firsthand anecdotal conversations with black friends and family confirms that they are indeed smart enough and able enough to get the widely available covid shots. For free if that is an issue. Where is this black-person-filled walled-off republican area of the country you are talking about?
        pm90 5y ago
        > Are you saying that CVS has been turning away brown people who want covid shots or are you just parroting rhetoric without really knowing or looking into the true root cause of this issue? It’s very clear that the OP is talking about systemic racism. Your anecdotes are meaningless. We need to look at statistical data. If African Americans are vaccinated less, it doesn’t matter if CVS isn’t explicitly denying them the shots. It’s possible that they may not have as many pharmacies in their neighborhoods. That they can’t get a day off to get the shots (because it’s not a mandate) in many Red States. Maybe there haven’t been enough outreach programs like Blue states trying to convince the community of the importance of getting vaccinated…
- chrismcb 5y ago
  Are you saying new York is a republican state? Or low vaccinated with 85% having at least one vaccine? Yet only about 15% of the blacks are vaccinated. I've never heard a black person day they have been denied, but I've heard plenty say they don't trust the government and why get it.
afavour 5y ago
> The anti-vax movement isn't just right-wing. Blacks are the most under-vaccinated demographic. I’d resist extrapolating too much from that. “hasn’t got a vaccine” doesn’t equal “is anti-vax”. There are still issues with accessibility of the vaccine (varying wildly according to location) and those with lower incomes working hourly-paid jobs are concerned about having to take time off to both get the vaccine (two doses) and deal with the side effects. That’s not to say no black people are anti-vax, there’s a strong distrust of the medical establishment by many (given the history it’s understandable!) but just pointing out that it’s not a 1:1 relationship.
AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
I don't think I'd describe the black people who don't get vaccinated as "anti-vax". Black people have a well earned historical distrust of the medical community that's pretty much completely unrelated to the zeitgeist of the "anti-vax" movement.
- School-Cotton 5y ago
  Anti-vax is anti-vax regardless of how justified you may think the reasons are. Anyway, if it’s justifiable to believe that the medical community is behaving untrustworthily towards black people, wouldn’t that be evidence that they’re unethical in general, and reason enough for anyone, black or not, not to get the vaccine?
- zepto 5y ago
  I don’t see how they are unrelated at all. It sounds like you are saying they just don’t ‘feel’ like the same thing, but I see no reason for that other than racism.
- Levitz 5y ago
  Going down that line of thinking, I think every citizen out there can have legitimate distrust of their government.
- gruez 5y ago
  >Black people have a well earned historical distrust of the medical community that's pretty much completely unrelated to the zeitgeist of the "anti-vax" movement. As opposed to white people? Why does it matter whether you mistrust the US government because of Tuskegee Syphilis Study, or because of MKULTRA?
  - AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
    It's really weird how people responding to me keep talking about distrust in the US government, when I was talking about distrust in the medical community.
    - 5y ago
x86_64Ubuntu 5y ago
There is an difference between a community that just happens to have low vaccination rates, and one that is ideologically opposed to vaccinations.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

ZeroGravitas 5y ago

I think this is misleading. It's very notable that the states where the racial gap is highest are a) not doing very well on mass vaccination b) Republican https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/covid-vaccine-tracker-global-distribution/us-vaccine-demographics.html https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/covid-vaccine-tracker-glo... So I think it's fair to ask if these people have been denied the vaccine more than they've rejected it. Meanwhile, the stats fairly clearly show political affiliation to be a bigger factor: > According to a report from the Kaiser Family Foundation (KFF) released on Sept. 28, gaps in vaccination rates across racial and ethnic groups have virtually disappeared—while gaps reflecting political affiliation have widened substantially.

batch12 5y ago
Where are vaccines being denied? I haven't seen this as a thing even in the reddest states.
- ZeroGravitas 5y ago
  I think you're thinking of a very literal "I'm here for my vaccine" ""No, denied due to skin color" when I'm thinking of "We should spend some money and put some collective effort in to ensure everyone has quick and easy access to the vaccine, especially the poor and the vulnerable" "No, we’ll follow the same general plan as for voting, long lines at a few awkward places where lots of black people live, lots of locations with short waits where white people live".
  - batch12 5y ago
    Nope, still haven't seen this as a thing. There are still drugstores and doctors offices which have vaccines in these poor areas that give the shots for free. Not getting the shot is a deliberate choice and it's not racism that is blocking people from getting it. People of every race are smart and enabled enough to get this shot if they want it.
    - ZeroGravitas 5y ago
      Interesting that COVID vaccine provision is less racist than the average healthcare provision: > NAM found that “racial and ethnic minorities receive lower-quality health care than white people—even when insurance status, income, age, and severity of conditions are comparable.” By “lower-quality health care,” NAM meant the concrete, inferior care that physicians give their black patients. NAM reported that minority persons are less likely than white persons to be given appropriate cardiac care, to receive kidney dialysis or transplants, and to receive the best treatments for stroke, cancer, or AIDS. It concluded by describing an “uncomfortable reality”: “some people in the United States were more likely to die from cancer, heart disease, and diabetes simply because of their race or ethnicity, not just because they lack access to health care.” But I wouldn't want to doubt your anectodal evidence that black people are "smart" enough to not face institutional racism.
      - batch12 5y ago
        Are you saying that CVS has been turning away brown people who want covid shots or are you just parroting rhetoric without really knowing or looking into the true root cause of this issue? Yes. My firsthand anecdotal conversations with black friends and family confirms that they are indeed smart enough and able enough to get the widely available covid shots. For free if that is an issue. Where is this black-person-filled walled-off republican area of the country you are talking about?
        pm90 5y ago
        > Are you saying that CVS has been turning away brown people who want covid shots or are you just parroting rhetoric without really knowing or looking into the true root cause of this issue? It’s very clear that the OP is talking about systemic racism. Your anecdotes are meaningless. We need to look at statistical data. If African Americans are vaccinated less, it doesn’t matter if CVS isn’t explicitly denying them the shots. It’s possible that they may not have as many pharmacies in their neighborhoods. That they can’t get a day off to get the shots (because it’s not a mandate) in many Red States. Maybe there haven’t been enough outreach programs like Blue states trying to convince the community of the importance of getting vaccinated…
chrismcb 5y ago
Are you saying new York is a republican state? Or low vaccinated with 85% having at least one vaccine? Yet only about 15% of the blacks are vaccinated. I've never heard a black person day they have been denied, but I've heard plenty say they don't trust the government and why get it.

afavour 5y ago

> The anti-vax movement isn't just right-wing. Blacks are the most under-vaccinated demographic. I’d resist extrapolating too much from that. “hasn’t got a vaccine” doesn’t equal “is anti-vax”. There are still issues with accessibility of the vaccine (varying wildly according to location) and those with lower incomes working hourly-paid jobs are concerned about having to take time off to both get the vaccine (two doses) and deal with the side effects. That’s not to say no black people are anti-vax, there’s a strong distrust of the medical establishment by many (given the history it’s understandable!) but just pointing out that it’s not a 1:1 relationship.

AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago

I don't think I'd describe the black people who don't get vaccinated as "anti-vax". Black people have a well earned historical distrust of the medical community that's pretty much completely unrelated to the zeitgeist of the "anti-vax" movement.

School-Cotton 5y ago
Anti-vax is anti-vax regardless of how justified you may think the reasons are. Anyway, if it’s justifiable to believe that the medical community is behaving untrustworthily towards black people, wouldn’t that be evidence that they’re unethical in general, and reason enough for anyone, black or not, not to get the vaccine?
zepto 5y ago
I don’t see how they are unrelated at all. It sounds like you are saying they just don’t ‘feel’ like the same thing, but I see no reason for that other than racism.
Levitz 5y ago
Going down that line of thinking, I think every citizen out there can have legitimate distrust of their government.
gruez 5y ago
>Black people have a well earned historical distrust of the medical community that's pretty much completely unrelated to the zeitgeist of the "anti-vax" movement. As opposed to white people? Why does it matter whether you mistrust the US government because of Tuskegee Syphilis Study, or because of MKULTRA?
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
  It's really weird how people responding to me keep talking about distrust in the US government, when I was talking about distrust in the medical community.
  - 5y ago

x86_64Ubuntu 5y ago

There is an difference between a community that just happens to have low vaccination rates, and one that is ideologically opposed to vaccinations.