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> The pandemic response completely ignored the costs of shutdowns. There has been little or no consideration of their impact on physical health, mental health,

> The pandemic response completely ignored the costs of shutdowns. There has been little or no consideration of their impact on physical health, mental health, education, business, employment, worship. Anyone who went to an open bar or a packed church service in the USA in December 2020 can tell that governors and the courts were both very sensitive to business and religious concerns about impact on worship, business, and employment. Unclear who you mean “exaggerated the risks” but the actual risk of fatality was more like 0.6% of all infected in the USA pre-vaccine.[0] 0.3% is the case only after torturing statistics or using international statistics from countries that skew younger and have fewer risk factors. [0] see https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1201971220321809 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S120197122...

yucky 5y ago
>0.3% is the case only after torturing statistics Ironic, since a 0.3% (or 0.6%) fatality rate is vastly exaggerated for people in low risk groups. The only reason the number is even that high is due to the high death tolls of people in high risk groups.
- javagram 5y ago
  That is how averages work. One could equally point out that 0.6% IFR actually underestimated the risk for some adults. Many people shared Facebook memes of a “99.9%” survival rate not understanding that they personally were at greater risk than that. This page was available on the CDC website for quite a long time explaining the different risks in a pretty straightforward table https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/covid-data/investigations-discovery/hospitalization-death-by-age.html https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/covid-data/investi...
- giraffe_lady 5y ago
  > The only reason the number is even that high is due to the high death tolls of people in high risk groups. The only reason the fatality rate is that high is because people died? What are you trying to say here? What else would it measure?
  - yucky 5y ago
    Let's try this another way. If you're healthy and under 50 your odds of dying from covid are roughly on par with being struck by lightning. Better?
    - giraffe_lady 5y ago
      I'm neither so not really.
u801e 5y ago
> 0.3% is the case only after torturing statistics or using international statistics from countries that skew younger and have fewer risk factors. Or countries that don't keep accurate records pertaining to hospitalizations and cause of death.
gjsman-1000 5y ago
Ha - I wish they were respectful. In my home state, the respect was very much lacking. Whatever they could get away with was the strategy. To say they were respectful - absolutely they were not. Edit: They were literally advising people to snitch on each other, even neighbor on neighbor, and make sure to keep that Christmas gathering at 10 people! Last I knew that was a communist tactic. Respected us? Edit 2: The above would be for Christmas. Earlier in the year it was much worse, don’t attend church unless you are in your car with windows shut for months.
- bingohbangoh 5y ago
  This may be a red state, blue state difference
- drekk 5y ago
  I guarantee you regardless of which state of the 50 you're discussing, red/blue/whatever, that people still went to bars, to indoor dining, to parties. In New York the national guard was sent to SUNY Oneonta to forcibly quarantine the entire student body because the administration was unwilling to enforce lockdown. Also, "communist tactic"? The red scare is still with us but to see that shit on HN is always alarming. If holding people accountable so that they don't sacrifice grandma and the immunocompromised for "the economy" (whose economy? certainly hasn't benefitted me) is necessary then I'll do so gladly. If you don't care for public health or the people around you why should I? The federal government and most governors didn't do shit. It sounds like you live in one of the few places that tried, and got fucked by the sobering reality that a constant 33-40% of this country can not handle epidemiological outbreaks while we sport a pretty weak central government. US might have a low death rate because of fancy hospitals and some of the best specialists on the planet — it never needed to infect this many people or kill a million Americans. If COVID is no big deal I don't want to have to "never forget 9/11" or whatever bullshit people refusing to vaccinate or quarantine say. And for the dig at communism, China's zero-covid policy worked. Westerners can say the numbers are cooked, with a population of 1.4 billion you're not going to hide 1 in 3 getting infected. That's the number in the US as of the end of 2020, 1 in 3. Vietnam's zero COVID policy was also working, until they ended it for the economy. Maybe profit motives are unethical where human lives are concerned? By what calculus do you get to determine which outbreaks are worth the bare minimum of germ theory and which ones we get to sacrifice our families and neighbors to for the economy? I'll end with the note that there are outcomes beyond death. My boyfriend and I contracted COVID before vaccines were available (he works in healthcare) and he couldn't smell or taste for a year. Made eating very difficult. My grandfather can't walk a block anymore, and hasn't been able to in months, but survived. My coworker started to lose her hair in clumps and was embarrassed to wear a wig, but survived. Personally, as a 23 year old with no comorbidities, who was fit and had no physical issues—I'm still recovering a year later. My run times aren't the same, I have a lot less lung capacity, I developed clinical depression. I lived in Argentina for a time and caught swine flu as a child. I'd easily put this as worse. During the infection even putting on a shirt hurt. I'm happy most people are vaccinated now and unlikely to have severe outcomes, but the risk of exposure was totally unnecessary.
mbg721 5y ago
> Anyone who went to an open bar or a packed church service in the USA in December 2020 can tell that governors and the courts were both very sensitive to business and religious concerns about impact on worship, business, and employment. By December maybe, but earlier in 2020 this varied greatly by state, and there are plenty of educational, business, and religious institutions that still haven't recovered. I think people are underestimating just how much damage was done.

yucky 5y ago

>0.3% is the case only after torturing statistics Ironic, since a 0.3% (or 0.6%) fatality rate is vastly exaggerated for people in low risk groups. The only reason the number is even that high is due to the high death tolls of people in high risk groups.

javagram 5y ago
That is how averages work. One could equally point out that 0.6% IFR actually underestimated the risk for some adults. Many people shared Facebook memes of a “99.9%” survival rate not understanding that they personally were at greater risk than that. This page was available on the CDC website for quite a long time explaining the different risks in a pretty straightforward table https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/covid-data/investigations-discovery/hospitalization-death-by-age.html https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/covid-data/investi...
giraffe_lady 5y ago
> The only reason the number is even that high is due to the high death tolls of people in high risk groups. The only reason the fatality rate is that high is because people died? What are you trying to say here? What else would it measure?
- yucky 5y ago
  Let's try this another way. If you're healthy and under 50 your odds of dying from covid are roughly on par with being struck by lightning. Better?
  - giraffe_lady 5y ago
    I'm neither so not really.

u801e 5y ago

> 0.3% is the case only after torturing statistics or using international statistics from countries that skew younger and have fewer risk factors. Or countries that don't keep accurate records pertaining to hospitalizations and cause of death.

gjsman-1000 5y ago

Ha - I wish they were respectful. In my home state, the respect was very much lacking. Whatever they could get away with was the strategy. To say they were respectful - absolutely they were not. Edit: They were literally advising people to snitch on each other, even neighbor on neighbor, and make sure to keep that Christmas gathering at 10 people! Last I knew that was a communist tactic. Respected us? Edit 2: The above would be for Christmas. Earlier in the year it was much worse, don’t attend church unless you are in your car with windows shut for months.

bingohbangoh 5y ago
This may be a red state, blue state difference
drekk 5y ago
I guarantee you regardless of which state of the 50 you're discussing, red/blue/whatever, that people still went to bars, to indoor dining, to parties. In New York the national guard was sent to SUNY Oneonta to forcibly quarantine the entire student body because the administration was unwilling to enforce lockdown. Also, "communist tactic"? The red scare is still with us but to see that shit on HN is always alarming. If holding people accountable so that they don't sacrifice grandma and the immunocompromised for "the economy" (whose economy? certainly hasn't benefitted me) is necessary then I'll do so gladly. If you don't care for public health or the people around you why should I? The federal government and most governors didn't do shit. It sounds like you live in one of the few places that tried, and got fucked by the sobering reality that a constant 33-40% of this country can not handle epidemiological outbreaks while we sport a pretty weak central government. US might have a low death rate because of fancy hospitals and some of the best specialists on the planet — it never needed to infect this many people or kill a million Americans. If COVID is no big deal I don't want to have to "never forget 9/11" or whatever bullshit people refusing to vaccinate or quarantine say. And for the dig at communism, China's zero-covid policy worked. Westerners can say the numbers are cooked, with a population of 1.4 billion you're not going to hide 1 in 3 getting infected. That's the number in the US as of the end of 2020, 1 in 3. Vietnam's zero COVID policy was also working, until they ended it for the economy. Maybe profit motives are unethical where human lives are concerned? By what calculus do you get to determine which outbreaks are worth the bare minimum of germ theory and which ones we get to sacrifice our families and neighbors to for the economy? I'll end with the note that there are outcomes beyond death. My boyfriend and I contracted COVID before vaccines were available (he works in healthcare) and he couldn't smell or taste for a year. Made eating very difficult. My grandfather can't walk a block anymore, and hasn't been able to in months, but survived. My coworker started to lose her hair in clumps and was embarrassed to wear a wig, but survived. Personally, as a 23 year old with no comorbidities, who was fit and had no physical issues—I'm still recovering a year later. My run times aren't the same, I have a lot less lung capacity, I developed clinical depression. I lived in Argentina for a time and caught swine flu as a child. I'd easily put this as worse. During the infection even putting on a shirt hurt. I'm happy most people are vaccinated now and unlikely to have severe outcomes, but the risk of exposure was totally unnecessary.

mbg721 5y ago

> Anyone who went to an open bar or a packed church service in the USA in December 2020 can tell that governors and the courts were both very sensitive to business and religious concerns about impact on worship, business, and employment. By December maybe, but earlier in 2020 this varied greatly by state, and there are plenty of educational, business, and religious institutions that still haven't recovered. I think people are underestimating just how much damage was done.