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My initial reaction was incredulity against Upwork because this story as described doesn’t seem to make sense. You reminded me though that freelancer sites are

by 300bps 5y ago

My initial reaction was incredulity against Upwork because this story as described doesn’t seem to make sense. You reminded me though that freelancer sites are one of the easiest ways to turn stolen credit cards into cash. It does sound like OP flagged for this at Upwork.

piaste 5y ago
However, OP claimed to have sent Upwork proof of two years of actual projects completed. While Upwork doubtlessly asked for them to verify that OP had not been scamming the client, it also shows that two years of real work had been done. A credit card launderer would not have had such material at hand.
- alisonkisk 5y ago
- tlogan 5y ago
  So he got scammed by Robin. And Robin was smart to meet the guy so Upwork has reason to believe that contractor is also a scammer (the account is not closed because they want to recover the money first). Without cooperation from Robin this is a hard case for the contractor. If he had logging by screenshots it might be easier but with manual logging of hours there is very little reason to believe. In short, Robin scammed the contractor using “contractor friendly” tactics: manual logging, let’s meet, etc. Upwork does warn about that, but scammers will tell something like “I trust you”, “upwork invides your privacy”, etc.
  - piaste 5y ago
    > If he had logging by screenshots it might be easier but with manual logging of hours there is very little reason to believe. OP wrote "I sent Upwork two years’ worth of projects". I assume that meant he showed them the actual work, rather than simple activity logs. With any luck, the content of the projects should be sufficiently specific to "Robin"'s business that it could show it was not unrelated work being passed off as Upwork activity. And if I were in OP's place, I would have sent any chat logs I had had with Robin. At some point the effort required to fake all that evidence should be high enough to make it exceedingly unlikely for OP to be a simple credit card fraudster. I should note that none of the above is my key reason for siding with OP. The key reason for siding with OP is that Upwork, if I understand the system correctly, process the payments themselves and does not give its freelancers any way to actually prevent credit card fraud, so it cannot demand that they take on that responsibility. If I buy products on Amazon Marketplace with a stolen CC, does Amazon demand money from the sellers? I sure hope not.
    - tlogan 5y ago
      > If I buy products on Amazon Marketplace with a stolen CC, > does Amazon demand money from the sellers? I sure hope not. Of course - if the seller says "I do not have FedEx tracking number, but here is the picture of me walking to the post office". Or the seller says: "I trusted this buyer and I just drop it at his house". The key here is that there is no verifiable way for Upwork to know that this hours really happen.
- 300bps 5y ago
  I understand what you’re saying. What I don’t understand though is OP said that two years of charges were charged back. My understanding is that is not possible.

by 300bps 5y ago

piaste 5y ago

However, OP claimed to have sent Upwork proof of two years of actual projects completed. While Upwork doubtlessly asked for them to verify that OP had not been scamming the client, it also shows that two years of real work had been done. A credit card launderer would not have had such material at hand.

alisonkisk 5y ago
tlogan 5y ago
So he got scammed by Robin. And Robin was smart to meet the guy so Upwork has reason to believe that contractor is also a scammer (the account is not closed because they want to recover the money first). Without cooperation from Robin this is a hard case for the contractor. If he had logging by screenshots it might be easier but with manual logging of hours there is very little reason to believe. In short, Robin scammed the contractor using “contractor friendly” tactics: manual logging, let’s meet, etc. Upwork does warn about that, but scammers will tell something like “I trust you”, “upwork invides your privacy”, etc.
- piaste 5y ago
  > If he had logging by screenshots it might be easier but with manual logging of hours there is very little reason to believe. OP wrote "I sent Upwork two years’ worth of projects". I assume that meant he showed them the actual work, rather than simple activity logs. With any luck, the content of the projects should be sufficiently specific to "Robin"'s business that it could show it was not unrelated work being passed off as Upwork activity. And if I were in OP's place, I would have sent any chat logs I had had with Robin. At some point the effort required to fake all that evidence should be high enough to make it exceedingly unlikely for OP to be a simple credit card fraudster. I should note that none of the above is my key reason for siding with OP. The key reason for siding with OP is that Upwork, if I understand the system correctly, process the payments themselves and does not give its freelancers any way to actually prevent credit card fraud, so it cannot demand that they take on that responsibility. If I buy products on Amazon Marketplace with a stolen CC, does Amazon demand money from the sellers? I sure hope not.
  - tlogan 5y ago
    > If I buy products on Amazon Marketplace with a stolen CC, > does Amazon demand money from the sellers? I sure hope not. Of course - if the seller says "I do not have FedEx tracking number, but here is the picture of me walking to the post office". Or the seller says: "I trusted this buyer and I just drop it at his house". The key here is that there is no verifiable way for Upwork to know that this hours really happen.
300bps 5y ago
I understand what you’re saying. What I don’t understand though is OP said that two years of charges were charged back. My understanding is that is not possible.