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That's the only sane approach to start with. Even the NSA, in a country which undoubtedly leads in its technical ability to collect and store vast amounts of da

That's the only sane approach to start with. Even the NSA, in a country which undoubtedly leads in its technical ability to collect and store vast amounts of data, didn't try to intercept every Cisco router on the planet to backdoor it. That increases the amount of data you have to process and store by orders of magnitude, and vastly increases the risk of detection. Targeted strikes are way more effective until you have the capacity to effortlessly cast the widest net. I have no idea if China is there yet. So it wouldn't be a stretch to believe that some innocent looking bugs are introduced here and there, with the ability to string them into a serious exploit. It creates a cover of plausible deniability making it impossible (with what we know) to say it was incompetence or maliciousness as proven by any number of vulnerabilities which stayed for years in all kinds of software before being disclosed. Mass media works differently when reporting on the home-team vs. the enemy so you might get the idea that we know it's maliciousness when it's a Chinese drone manufacturer [0]. But it's just an accident when Webex is suddenly hit by a whole host of random bugs that allowed hackers to snoop on any meeting and needed multiple rounds of patches to be fixed, right in the middle of the teleworking setup [1]. [0] https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2020/07/chinese-made-drone-app-in-google-play-spooks-security-researchers/ https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2020/07/chine... [1] https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2020/11/cisco-rolls-out-fix-for-webex-flaws-that-lets-hackers-eavesdrop-on-meetings/ https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2020/11/cisco...

lazyeye 5y ago
Of course but in China you'll never see the (almost mandatory) "we're just as bad, if not worse" comment whenever an issue of national security comes up. I also note that China blocks all foreign social media from their markets whilst running some of the most invasive apps (e.g TikTok) in ours. Please enjoy your freedom to advocate on behalf of a foreign govt on a US based forum, a freedom not available to the good citizens of China.
- buran77 5y ago
  You found a perfect way to drag the discussion into the gutter. > Please enjoy your freedom to advocate on behalf of a foreign govt on a US based forum Is this freedom transactional? Because you suggest that in exchange for "freedom" or access to "a US based forum" I should refrain from any remark that offends your sensibilities. I made very specific points related to the likelihood that China is able to collect or process the amount of data for continuous global surveillance (rather than targeting what they're specifically interested in), knowing where the country with the highest such capacity was ~10 years ago at the time of the Snowden leaked data. Then I showed some evidence from mainstream quality publications exercising their freedoms by showing an obvious bias. This was also supported by a recent discussion on HN [0]. This is relevant because those are the kinds of sources the overwhelming majority of people (and you) in the free world use to form an opinion when deciding the relative positions of different countries on the surveillance/hacking map. How is any of the stuff you said pertinent to this? Are you going to count how many civilians are freedom killed in the Middle East every day just so you can have the freedom of buying cheaper freedom gas? Oversimplified of course, to your freedom benefit. You are not properly equipped to have this conversation. You took an opinion as is and support it with personal feelings and demonstrably biased sources, then instinctively fight any suggestion that doesn't fit your world view even at the cost of bringing trash arguments. The Chinese people have a gun pointed at their heads, you choose to be ignorant and aggressive. They are forced to accept biased sources, you are free to use unbiased one but here you are complacently putting in more effort to attack the person pointing out an issue than solving the issue. Good thing you're free to do that, how would society progress without people like you trying to shut up anyone highlighting a weakness that can be addressed. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29835933 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29835933
  - lazyeye 5y ago
    I think your opinions are so high-minded and naive in the extreme as to be effectively useless. We have to operate in the real world, not some frictionless, utopian ideal that is never going to happen. I dont think you are properly equipped to understand this reality etc... Nation states send nuclear submarines to the bottom of the ocean to tap into communication cables. You dont think there going to hack a couple of routers if the opportunity presents? There just appears to be a remarkable complacency on national security issues in the west. I wonder if its because every time the issue comes up, somebody always comes back with the predictable "we're just as bad" comment. As if the idea that competing great powers using whatever resources they think will give them an advantage is some incredible insight that hasnt occurred to anybody else. And no I'm not suggesting the west should stoop to the level of China. There is a happy medium. But I am suggesting we deal with national security issues effectively rather than doing nothing because "we're just as bad". Anyway regardless, I'm sure the CCP appreciates your naivety (or loyalty perhaps?).

lazyeye 5y ago

Of course but in China you'll never see the (almost mandatory) "we're just as bad, if not worse" comment whenever an issue of national security comes up. I also note that China blocks all foreign social media from their markets whilst running some of the most invasive apps (e.g TikTok) in ours. Please enjoy your freedom to advocate on behalf of a foreign govt on a US based forum, a freedom not available to the good citizens of China.

buran77 5y ago
You found a perfect way to drag the discussion into the gutter. > Please enjoy your freedom to advocate on behalf of a foreign govt on a US based forum Is this freedom transactional? Because you suggest that in exchange for "freedom" or access to "a US based forum" I should refrain from any remark that offends your sensibilities. I made very specific points related to the likelihood that China is able to collect or process the amount of data for continuous global surveillance (rather than targeting what they're specifically interested in), knowing where the country with the highest such capacity was ~10 years ago at the time of the Snowden leaked data. Then I showed some evidence from mainstream quality publications exercising their freedoms by showing an obvious bias. This was also supported by a recent discussion on HN [0]. This is relevant because those are the kinds of sources the overwhelming majority of people (and you) in the free world use to form an opinion when deciding the relative positions of different countries on the surveillance/hacking map. How is any of the stuff you said pertinent to this? Are you going to count how many civilians are freedom killed in the Middle East every day just so you can have the freedom of buying cheaper freedom gas? Oversimplified of course, to your freedom benefit. You are not properly equipped to have this conversation. You took an opinion as is and support it with personal feelings and demonstrably biased sources, then instinctively fight any suggestion that doesn't fit your world view even at the cost of bringing trash arguments. The Chinese people have a gun pointed at their heads, you choose to be ignorant and aggressive. They are forced to accept biased sources, you are free to use unbiased one but here you are complacently putting in more effort to attack the person pointing out an issue than solving the issue. Good thing you're free to do that, how would society progress without people like you trying to shut up anyone highlighting a weakness that can be addressed. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29835933 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29835933
- lazyeye 5y ago
  I think your opinions are so high-minded and naive in the extreme as to be effectively useless. We have to operate in the real world, not some frictionless, utopian ideal that is never going to happen. I dont think you are properly equipped to understand this reality etc... Nation states send nuclear submarines to the bottom of the ocean to tap into communication cables. You dont think there going to hack a couple of routers if the opportunity presents? There just appears to be a remarkable complacency on national security issues in the west. I wonder if its because every time the issue comes up, somebody always comes back with the predictable "we're just as bad" comment. As if the idea that competing great powers using whatever resources they think will give them an advantage is some incredible insight that hasnt occurred to anybody else. And no I'm not suggesting the west should stoop to the level of China. There is a happy medium. But I am suggesting we deal with national security issues effectively rather than doing nothing because "we're just as bad". Anyway regardless, I'm sure the CCP appreciates your naivety (or loyalty perhaps?).