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> if your only answer is dismissal and anger, you’re actually just ceding the power to decide what these technologies will look like in our world I mean, if I'

> if your only answer is dismissal and anger, you’re actually just ceding the power to decide what these technologies will look like in our world I mean, if I'm dismissing it, it means that I don't believe that anything meaningful could come out of it, doesn't it? At that point, why "power to decide what these technologies will look like in our world" should have any role in my decision process? > these technologies are not going to go away There are a lot of harmful, useless, irrelevant, etc. technologies which won't go away. So this wouldn't be surprising. But if someone is trying to articulate that these technologies will create a revolution of some sorts, most people will need better convincing. Show me the value, where's the ??? value!

Xyit 5y ago
I think the tone of the author is that distributed ledger/blockchain/crypto/web3/monke ponzi- however any individual chooses to interpret this “cultural and monetary shift”- is in reality the future. And those who respond with indifference and denial of that reality, much like a person in your position, will have no say or power within the new system. That’s the voice of the author I believe. Not mine. As to the value, well I’d say you can only change when you’re ready to change. This applies to vision of value as well.
- dystopiabreaker 5y ago
  >And those who respond with indifference and denial of that reality, much like a person in your position, will have no say or power within the new system. that wasn't my point. my point is that this technology shows no sign of slowing down, so by just angrily and reflexively dismissing it critics are throwing away an opportunity to make real, constructive criticism like Moxie did here at a time when it could make the most impact.
  - magicjosh 5y ago
    Save your words for people who want to hear it! The people like me who really need your communications are starving for it. People who are already bought in and want quality content aren't getting much. This is a risk to the long term adoption of crypto. My sources are few. I get a few crumbs on /ethfinance, and some nice nuggets from this thread, but there's just so much crap and snark to wade through it's almost not worth it.
_3jh0 5y ago
A few web3 projects I think provide value. 1. Handshake This is decentralized root naming system. This is one of the most practical use of a blockchain where all records need to be public and verifiable. No need to depend on icann and registry owners for having a tld which you own. 2. Unlock This is membership protocol powered by nft. People can buy a nft and then for authorization, service provider can check whether the wallet has the nft and is valid. This way, nobody controls your membership and you can move them around the web as you like. They are all connected to a wallet you control. 3. Arweave Permanent storage using incentives and built on the idea of storage getting cheaper. Of course, this may not scale but I like the potential.
- runeks 5y ago
  > 3. Arweave > Permanent storage using incentives and built on the idea of storage getting cheaper. […] How does this compare to existing implementations of the same idea such as STORJ?
- qaq 5y ago
  Thx for highlighting this. If Handshake becomes a viable system it will def. serve as an important milestone for making web3 viable. Problem is this is not the type of project that is getting significant attention or funding.
  - dystopiabreaker 5y ago
    ENS is an example of a project that is extant, working, and has a decent amount of funding (controlled democratically through a delegated token voting system). Here's my ENS record: https://app.ens.domains/name/suzuha.eth/details https://app.ens.domains/name/suzuha.eth/details also, my post is on arweave, one of the cryptoeconomic data availability layers mentioned on the post: https://3m44zon3blpnpjs3neglffbhqaibvuaeofkln2rd645dvky7cblq.arweave.net/2znMubsK3temW2kMspQngBAa0ARxVLbqI_c6OqsfEFc https://3m44zon3blpnpjs3neglffbhqaibvuaeofkln2rd645dvky7cblq...
    - qaq 5y ago
      I just to a quick look it seams pretty centralized in practice no? https://docs.ens.domains/permanent-registrar-faq https://docs.ens.domains/permanent-registrar-faq
ayngg 5y ago
I think the idea is that there are entities like facebook/ meta who believe that the metaverse is going to be a big thing, so if a "metaverse" is going to exist and see adoption, most people would much rather have it not be under the sole control of a corporation like facebook like most of the services on the web right now. Similarly, digital currencies are going to eventually become mainstream, and there are similar concerns about how central banks will implement them. In cases like these, having an second option that isn't controlled by some powerful institution could help democratize how they get implemented and used. If you dismiss it, then you are just leaving it to these large institutions to make the rules like they previously have, they have the power and resources to out compete, buy or snuff out any traditional competition.
- RandomLensman 5y ago
  The points made are relevant. However, they are much more political/social points rather than technological. Technology could help to facilitate such social or political change but it is the smaller part. Somehow the web3/crypto etc discussions tend to vastly overestimate the role of technology vs the role of societal choices.
  - jonnycomputer 5y ago
    Technological changes are often precursor to societal change. But its not necessarily easy to predict what that societal change will be. Very often it isn't what the techno-enthuiasts think it will be.
- cormacrelf 5y ago
  Yeah, but remember when Facebook decided to inflate engagement stats for video, and sent everyone on a wild goose chase trying to create videos for everything? That made journalism much more expensive to do, made the web worse (auto playing videos now everywhere) and was a complete and utter waste of everyone’s time, effort and money. That’s almost certainly happening again with the metaverse. You don’t have to play the game. You’re arguing that we should follow the advice of large institutions to invest in their crap, simply because if we don’t, they’ll have the crap all to themselves. I say let them keep it.
tluyben2 5y ago
> Show me the value, where's the ??? value! What are the killer apps that are built on top of the web3 stack? Most I saw are not very killer... Or decentralized. I would expect, if this all is great as they say, that people tell me 'oh, you are using platform X?? Did you know that's fully web3?'. I tried things and they all are... not good... expensive or obvious money grabs. And when I ask around, even though 'entire twitter' seems to be building web3 apps, people only send the same ones; how can that be? Maybe it's my echo chamber; I don't follow many blockchain things.

Xyit 5y ago

I think the tone of the author is that distributed ledger/blockchain/crypto/web3/monke ponzi- however any individual chooses to interpret this “cultural and monetary shift”- is in reality the future. And those who respond with indifference and denial of that reality, much like a person in your position, will have no say or power within the new system. That’s the voice of the author I believe. Not mine. As to the value, well I’d say you can only change when you’re ready to change. This applies to vision of value as well.

dystopiabreaker 5y ago
>And those who respond with indifference and denial of that reality, much like a person in your position, will have no say or power within the new system. that wasn't my point. my point is that this technology shows no sign of slowing down, so by just angrily and reflexively dismissing it critics are throwing away an opportunity to make real, constructive criticism like Moxie did here at a time when it could make the most impact.
- magicjosh 5y ago
  Save your words for people who want to hear it! The people like me who really need your communications are starving for it. People who are already bought in and want quality content aren't getting much. This is a risk to the long term adoption of crypto. My sources are few. I get a few crumbs on /ethfinance, and some nice nuggets from this thread, but there's just so much crap and snark to wade through it's almost not worth it.

_3jh0 5y ago

A few web3 projects I think provide value. 1. Handshake This is decentralized root naming system. This is one of the most practical use of a blockchain where all records need to be public and verifiable. No need to depend on icann and registry owners for having a tld which you own. 2. Unlock This is membership protocol powered by nft. People can buy a nft and then for authorization, service provider can check whether the wallet has the nft and is valid. This way, nobody controls your membership and you can move them around the web as you like. They are all connected to a wallet you control. 3. Arweave Permanent storage using incentives and built on the idea of storage getting cheaper. Of course, this may not scale but I like the potential.

runeks 5y ago
> 3. Arweave > Permanent storage using incentives and built on the idea of storage getting cheaper. […] How does this compare to existing implementations of the same idea such as STORJ?
qaq 5y ago
Thx for highlighting this. If Handshake becomes a viable system it will def. serve as an important milestone for making web3 viable. Problem is this is not the type of project that is getting significant attention or funding.
- dystopiabreaker 5y ago
  ENS is an example of a project that is extant, working, and has a decent amount of funding (controlled democratically through a delegated token voting system). Here's my ENS record: https://app.ens.domains/name/suzuha.eth/details https://app.ens.domains/name/suzuha.eth/details also, my post is on arweave, one of the cryptoeconomic data availability layers mentioned on the post: https://3m44zon3blpnpjs3neglffbhqaibvuaeofkln2rd645dvky7cblq.arweave.net/2znMubsK3temW2kMspQngBAa0ARxVLbqI_c6OqsfEFc https://3m44zon3blpnpjs3neglffbhqaibvuaeofkln2rd645dvky7cblq...
  - qaq 5y ago
    I just to a quick look it seams pretty centralized in practice no? https://docs.ens.domains/permanent-registrar-faq https://docs.ens.domains/permanent-registrar-faq

ayngg 5y ago

I think the idea is that there are entities like facebook/ meta who believe that the metaverse is going to be a big thing, so if a "metaverse" is going to exist and see adoption, most people would much rather have it not be under the sole control of a corporation like facebook like most of the services on the web right now. Similarly, digital currencies are going to eventually become mainstream, and there are similar concerns about how central banks will implement them. In cases like these, having an second option that isn't controlled by some powerful institution could help democratize how they get implemented and used. If you dismiss it, then you are just leaving it to these large institutions to make the rules like they previously have, they have the power and resources to out compete, buy or snuff out any traditional competition.

RandomLensman 5y ago
The points made are relevant. However, they are much more political/social points rather than technological. Technology could help to facilitate such social or political change but it is the smaller part. Somehow the web3/crypto etc discussions tend to vastly overestimate the role of technology vs the role of societal choices.
- jonnycomputer 5y ago
  Technological changes are often precursor to societal change. But its not necessarily easy to predict what that societal change will be. Very often it isn't what the techno-enthuiasts think it will be.
cormacrelf 5y ago
Yeah, but remember when Facebook decided to inflate engagement stats for video, and sent everyone on a wild goose chase trying to create videos for everything? That made journalism much more expensive to do, made the web worse (auto playing videos now everywhere) and was a complete and utter waste of everyone’s time, effort and money. That’s almost certainly happening again with the metaverse. You don’t have to play the game. You’re arguing that we should follow the advice of large institutions to invest in their crap, simply because if we don’t, they’ll have the crap all to themselves. I say let them keep it.

tluyben2 5y ago

> Show me the value, where's the ??? value! What are the killer apps that are built on top of the web3 stack? Most I saw are not very killer... Or decentralized. I would expect, if this all is great as they say, that people tell me 'oh, you are using platform X?? Did you know that's fully web3?'. I tried things and they all are... not good... expensive or obvious money grabs. And when I ask around, even though 'entire twitter' seems to be building web3 apps, people only send the same ones; how can that be? Maybe it's my echo chamber; I don't follow many blockchain things.