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I'm dismissively cynical with respect to the future of "web3", but for the most part I can appreciate the tone taken by this article; no defensiveness, no conde

I'm dismissively cynical with respect to the future of "web3", but for the most part I can appreciate the tone taken by this article; no defensiveness, no condescending suggestions that the critics "just don't get it", but most importantly, acknowledgement that these are real problems and a willingness to engage with the specifics of the criticisms outlined, without hedging. I remain unconvinced, but I think the discussion around blockchains would be a lot less heated if the rhetoric from the enthusiasts was typically this measured. Yes, I recognize I'm putting the onus on the enthusiasts and letting the cynics off the hook, but the enthusiasts are the ones claiming to herald the next iteration of the web, that's a haughty claim for an already controversial technology.

vmception 5y ago
The builders talk this measured way. Hang out with more of them, while they’re building and where they build. Join discussions where draft standards are being ratified or tabled. There isn't really a world where any of this goes away, so the voyeuristic and quizzical approach doesn't work, there is a world where updates push it in a more relatable direction. That might be the biggest pill for cynics to swallow, that there is no convincing them thats going to happen and they’ll wind up contributing to its resiliency anyway.
- bawolff 5y ago
  > There isn't really a world where any of this goes away Why not? Technologies rise and fall in unpredictable ways. I'll admit that there is a lot of energy to web3 - its not a minor passing fad. However that's still a long way from being inevitable. Honestly, whole thing reminds me of how communism is going to "bury us".
  - vmception 5y ago
    I’m not familiar with how your last line applies. The main answer is that these concepts dont go away and will continue even in a world without ubiquitous internet as making a couple computers communicate doesnt go away.
    - bawolff 5y ago
      For background on the quote, see https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/We_will_bury_you https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/We_will_bury_you but basically, it meant, the ideas of communism are inevitable, it doesn't matter what you do, the concepts aren't going away and eventually it will prevail, so we're happy to just wait it out (didn't quite work out that way) I see the same kind of, history is on our side so we can't fail, attitude here. And you're right, the "idea" of a blockchain isn't going to be forgotten anymore then the idea of the internet would be. However that doesn't mean web3 is going to succede in its rather undefined vision. It would be like saying the internet won't be forgotten and extrapolating facebook's future stock price. Or to use a digital cash analogy. The idea of digicash was not forgotten, but yet it still went under.
      - vmception 5y ago
        Okay that’s good context, now objectively what do you think about it on this topic and does it matter? What do you think it having the possibility of failing has to do with whether you spend time on it or being quizzical about the people that do? This isnt as simple as the LA Mayor’s response as mentioned in the above article, where he basically said “we’ll live our lives not bothering each other instead”, as we are all capitalists here there is alot of alpha. The alpha is built in seamlessly to your contributions, if you build. If you build you exercise a sentiment towards a world you want to exist, even if the technology stack does not allow it to succeed. And yet you make enough money. So you make enough money working on something you believe in. If the possibility of the technology being the limitation is your issue with it, then just call it entertainment. The entertainment industry, and that has unambiguous value too.
- root_axis 5y ago
  > The builders talk this measured way. Hang out with more of them, while they’re building and where they build. There's no reason for me to hang out with them, they can come to me if they want my attention. I don't come to HN for blockchain evangelism, but this is a tech forum and blockchain is tech so if an article comes up I will engage with what I am presented with. > There isn't really a world where any of this goes away, so the voyeuristic and quizzical approach doesn't work I don't think it goes away, but I don't see it really going anywhere else than where it already is. Cryptocurrency is synonymous with "speculation" in terms of what is actually happening in the real world. I have no doubt we might see bitcoin and alts continue to rise in price as the ecosystem continues to do everything it can to amplify the hype, but at the end of the day, blockchain "web3" will never take off because the masses have no interest in using cryptocurrency, they just enjoy trading it on coinbase and robinhood like it's a stock - web3 has nothing to offer those people.
dqpb 5y ago
The group of people you label “the enthusiasts” are too heterogeneous to be meaningful. For example many developers are enthusiastic about a specific blockchain technology and unenthusiastic about the others. Consider also the difference between someone who researches the formal specification and verification of smart contracts, vs someone who tweets dank memes of babydoge to Elon Musk. They’re completely different people with unaligned interests. If you choose to lump them together and react only to people peddling hype, then what you’ve really done is fooled yourself into aligning with the hype peddler and unaligning yourself with the researcher, by choosing the reverse vector of the peddler.

vmception 5y ago

The builders talk this measured way. Hang out with more of them, while they’re building and where they build. Join discussions where draft standards are being ratified or tabled. There isn't really a world where any of this goes away, so the voyeuristic and quizzical approach doesn't work, there is a world where updates push it in a more relatable direction. That might be the biggest pill for cynics to swallow, that there is no convincing them thats going to happen and they’ll wind up contributing to its resiliency anyway.

bawolff 5y ago
> There isn't really a world where any of this goes away Why not? Technologies rise and fall in unpredictable ways. I'll admit that there is a lot of energy to web3 - its not a minor passing fad. However that's still a long way from being inevitable. Honestly, whole thing reminds me of how communism is going to "bury us".
- vmception 5y ago
  I’m not familiar with how your last line applies. The main answer is that these concepts dont go away and will continue even in a world without ubiquitous internet as making a couple computers communicate doesnt go away.
  - bawolff 5y ago
    For background on the quote, see https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/We_will_bury_you https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/We_will_bury_you but basically, it meant, the ideas of communism are inevitable, it doesn't matter what you do, the concepts aren't going away and eventually it will prevail, so we're happy to just wait it out (didn't quite work out that way) I see the same kind of, history is on our side so we can't fail, attitude here. And you're right, the "idea" of a blockchain isn't going to be forgotten anymore then the idea of the internet would be. However that doesn't mean web3 is going to succede in its rather undefined vision. It would be like saying the internet won't be forgotten and extrapolating facebook's future stock price. Or to use a digital cash analogy. The idea of digicash was not forgotten, but yet it still went under.
    - vmception 5y ago
      Okay that’s good context, now objectively what do you think about it on this topic and does it matter? What do you think it having the possibility of failing has to do with whether you spend time on it or being quizzical about the people that do? This isnt as simple as the LA Mayor’s response as mentioned in the above article, where he basically said “we’ll live our lives not bothering each other instead”, as we are all capitalists here there is alot of alpha. The alpha is built in seamlessly to your contributions, if you build. If you build you exercise a sentiment towards a world you want to exist, even if the technology stack does not allow it to succeed. And yet you make enough money. So you make enough money working on something you believe in. If the possibility of the technology being the limitation is your issue with it, then just call it entertainment. The entertainment industry, and that has unambiguous value too.
root_axis 5y ago
> The builders talk this measured way. Hang out with more of them, while they’re building and where they build. There's no reason for me to hang out with them, they can come to me if they want my attention. I don't come to HN for blockchain evangelism, but this is a tech forum and blockchain is tech so if an article comes up I will engage with what I am presented with. > There isn't really a world where any of this goes away, so the voyeuristic and quizzical approach doesn't work I don't think it goes away, but I don't see it really going anywhere else than where it already is. Cryptocurrency is synonymous with "speculation" in terms of what is actually happening in the real world. I have no doubt we might see bitcoin and alts continue to rise in price as the ecosystem continues to do everything it can to amplify the hype, but at the end of the day, blockchain "web3" will never take off because the masses have no interest in using cryptocurrency, they just enjoy trading it on coinbase and robinhood like it's a stock - web3 has nothing to offer those people.

dqpb 5y ago

The group of people you label “the enthusiasts” are too heterogeneous to be meaningful. For example many developers are enthusiastic about a specific blockchain technology and unenthusiastic about the others. Consider also the difference between someone who researches the formal specification and verification of smart contracts, vs someone who tweets dank memes of babydoge to Elon Musk. They’re completely different people with unaligned interests. If you choose to lump them together and react only to people peddling hype, then what you’ve really done is fooled yourself into aligning with the hype peddler and unaligning yourself with the researcher, by choosing the reverse vector of the peddler.