4 ms·

"Light clients" is a term I've learned of recently. In the article, what are the specifics around "storage, bandwidth, and computation costs" for such a client?

"Light clients" is a term I've learned of recently. In the article, what are the specifics around "storage, bandwidth, and computation costs" for such a client? Is the idea we could all just have light clients running in the background on our phones with near zero impact?

dystopiabreaker 5y ago
for proof of stake, the cost is roughly: - download a hash-sized state root every block - download the set of validator signatures over that hash and verify each signature against the hash. if using aggregation-friendly curve, download the aggregate signature and verify it against the root. - for each state fragment, download the merkle uncles and compute the root hash and verify that it is the same as that signed off by the validator set. so yes, easily within resource limits for having them running all the time with near zero impact. Find My has comparable impact.
- magicjosh 5y ago
  fascinating thank you. The Find My analogy is thought provoking - a background service that creates a useful network. What does the light client world look like once complete, I wonder
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- ipaddr 5y ago
  That would be the full process but once you've done this once couldn't you just pickup where you left off and just update new entries?
threeseed 5y ago
> Is the idea we could all just have light clients running in the background on our phones with near zero impact? That's the idea. The reality however is that will never happen unless both Apple and Google are fully signed up to Web3 and incorporate the clients as part of the OS. And I don't see a single reason why they would do that when it would compromise their billion dollar payment revenue streams.
- dystopiabreaker 5y ago
  there is no reason why apple or google would need to do this. Rainbow or similar apps just need to change their code in their already deployed wallet software on these platforms to do light client verification.
  - dystopiabreaker 5y ago
    (and, many bitcoin wallets already do this)
  - threeseed 5y ago
    As an on-demand authentication mechanism manually implemented by every application, sure. Would just be curious what the benefit of a light client is versus connecting to an API in that case. But this idea that it would be a persistently connected service running in the background on your phone. That's a completely different story.
  - magicjosh 5y ago
    This makes sense to me. Running a light client at the OS level isn't needed. Is there some benefit to users from OS integration eventually? ie "Pay With Ethereum" in the same way Apple Pay / Google Pay / NFC works, does that benefit from running a light client? Sure, maybe the incentives aren't there because Apple wants Apple Pay money but whoever does implement it will make their device more useful.
- landemva 5y ago
  '... incorporate the clients as part of the OS.' No thank you, though your body and your choice. Simpler to just change the metamask RPC provider to something I trust or even my home node. Is more difficult to change full-bodied web3 apps which rely on specific data graphs.

dystopiabreaker 5y ago

for proof of stake, the cost is roughly: - download a hash-sized state root every block - download the set of validator signatures over that hash and verify each signature against the hash. if using aggregation-friendly curve, download the aggregate signature and verify it against the root. - for each state fragment, download the merkle uncles and compute the root hash and verify that it is the same as that signed off by the validator set. so yes, easily within resource limits for having them running all the time with near zero impact. Find My has comparable impact.

magicjosh 5y ago
fascinating thank you. The Find My analogy is thought provoking - a background service that creates a useful network. What does the light client world look like once complete, I wonder
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
ipaddr 5y ago
That would be the full process but once you've done this once couldn't you just pickup where you left off and just update new entries?

threeseed 5y ago

> Is the idea we could all just have light clients running in the background on our phones with near zero impact? That's the idea. The reality however is that will never happen unless both Apple and Google are fully signed up to Web3 and incorporate the clients as part of the OS. And I don't see a single reason why they would do that when it would compromise their billion dollar payment revenue streams.

dystopiabreaker 5y ago
there is no reason why apple or google would need to do this. Rainbow or similar apps just need to change their code in their already deployed wallet software on these platforms to do light client verification.
- dystopiabreaker 5y ago
  (and, many bitcoin wallets already do this)
- threeseed 5y ago
  As an on-demand authentication mechanism manually implemented by every application, sure. Would just be curious what the benefit of a light client is versus connecting to an API in that case. But this idea that it would be a persistently connected service running in the background on your phone. That's a completely different story.
- magicjosh 5y ago
  This makes sense to me. Running a light client at the OS level isn't needed. Is there some benefit to users from OS integration eventually? ie "Pay With Ethereum" in the same way Apple Pay / Google Pay / NFC works, does that benefit from running a light client? Sure, maybe the incentives aren't there because Apple wants Apple Pay money but whoever does implement it will make their device more useful.
landemva 5y ago
'... incorporate the clients as part of the OS.' No thank you, though your body and your choice. Simpler to just change the metamask RPC provider to something I trust or even my home node. Is more difficult to change full-bodied web3 apps which rely on specific data graphs.