5 ms·

Dystopian versions of this are interesting to imagine. Suppose the whole Keurig's DRM idea is applied to automated farm equipment. Want to plant some seeds?

Dystopian versions of this are interesting to imagine. Suppose the whole Keurig's DRM idea is applied to automated farm equipment. Want to plant some seeds? They have to be from a given source. Want to plant a certain crop, you can't plant it unless it's treated with a given pesticide. Inline sensors detect exactly what you are dispensing. This all works because if you want to automate the driving, you have to integrate with the dispensing of things: seeds, fertilizers, pesticides, etc. If you don't, you need a person Of course there is a flipside where that can be used to prevent you from using illegal pesticides, as those same in-line sensors could prevent dispensing of undesired things.

loceng 5y ago
It just made me realize: why don't we have a public system that if you want to do something new it needs to be brought forward for public discussion and public policy to be set first? I do know the obvious answers to this but what are the externalized costs of not doing it, and are the trade-off worth it?
- pugworthy 5y ago
  It's a good question. In my scenario I'm basically saying that if the tractor can say yes or no for actions, then this can be used for good or bad. But who gets to define the rules for it? What is undesirable for the environment for example may be very desirable for the shareholders.
- nexuist 5y ago
  > It just made me realize: why don't we have a public system that if you want to do something new it needs to be brought forward for public discussion and public policy to be set first? Like....some type of legislative system...where they hold hearings and make laws about them? That would be sick. Some startup should definitely disrupt this space. They could fund it by charging yearly subscriptions, maybe collect them every April or something. (Jokes aside: this is supposed to be the job of regulatory agencies, but because industry has grown so powerful and been unchecked for so long it doesn't really feel like anyone has any teeth left to stop corporations like JD anymore).
- xxpor 5y ago
  That’s how you end up with the California housing market. I’m not joking.
  - loceng 5y ago
    It depends on who's in control, elected into power, and their competency, that will determine the outcome. It doesn't inherently mean that part of the system is broken, I think it's mostly the electoral system that's broken.
chris_va 5y ago
It is really fun to imagine :). I am imaging the horrors of an HP printer ecosystem on a farm... Which now makes me wonder why HP printers do not require special HP paper. Fortunately, there is not much moat here. If John Deere demonstrates that self-driving tractors are a massive profit win for farmers, you'll see 10 competitors pop out of the startup sphere within a year.
- riffraff 5y ago
  > Which now makes me wonder why HP printers do not require special HP paper. in the case of cartridges, the Hé cartridges came first, then the compatible ones. In the case of paper, it existed before HP printers. See also Keurig capsules and water.
nexuist 5y ago
> Want to plant some seeds? They have to be from a given source. IIRC this was the major source of Monsanto's controversies, they claimed that their seed genomes were covered under patent law and farmers were not allowed to grow more plants using the seeds from their existing plants. They'd have to buy more seeds from Monsanto every season.
- kevin_thibedeau 5y ago
  More like you're not allowed to use patented genestock that pollinated your own non-Monsanto crop.
  - wincy 5y ago
    Isn’t this the equivalent of if your neighbors prize bull got out and impregnated your entire herd of cows, trying to then sue your neighbor for theft of property?
    - kaydub 5y ago
      From what I've read it'd be more equivalent of the bull getting out, you hearing about it and going to look for the bull, then forcing the bull to inseminate all your cows knowing that your neighbor typically charges $10k per.
  - JamisonM 5y ago
    I don't think this is an accurate characterization of the issue, if you are referencing the Schmeiser case then that wasn't the basis for Monsanto's complaint (although it was the basis of his failed defence).

loceng 5y ago

It just made me realize: why don't we have a public system that if you want to do something new it needs to be brought forward for public discussion and public policy to be set first? I do know the obvious answers to this but what are the externalized costs of not doing it, and are the trade-off worth it?

pugworthy 5y ago
It's a good question. In my scenario I'm basically saying that if the tractor can say yes or no for actions, then this can be used for good or bad. But who gets to define the rules for it? What is undesirable for the environment for example may be very desirable for the shareholders.
nexuist 5y ago
> It just made me realize: why don't we have a public system that if you want to do something new it needs to be brought forward for public discussion and public policy to be set first? Like....some type of legislative system...where they hold hearings and make laws about them? That would be sick. Some startup should definitely disrupt this space. They could fund it by charging yearly subscriptions, maybe collect them every April or something. (Jokes aside: this is supposed to be the job of regulatory agencies, but because industry has grown so powerful and been unchecked for so long it doesn't really feel like anyone has any teeth left to stop corporations like JD anymore).
xxpor 5y ago
That’s how you end up with the California housing market. I’m not joking.
- loceng 5y ago
  It depends on who's in control, elected into power, and their competency, that will determine the outcome. It doesn't inherently mean that part of the system is broken, I think it's mostly the electoral system that's broken.

chris_va 5y ago

It is really fun to imagine :). I am imaging the horrors of an HP printer ecosystem on a farm... Which now makes me wonder why HP printers do not require special HP paper. Fortunately, there is not much moat here. If John Deere demonstrates that self-driving tractors are a massive profit win for farmers, you'll see 10 competitors pop out of the startup sphere within a year.

riffraff 5y ago
> Which now makes me wonder why HP printers do not require special HP paper. in the case of cartridges, the Hé cartridges came first, then the compatible ones. In the case of paper, it existed before HP printers. See also Keurig capsules and water.

nexuist 5y ago

> Want to plant some seeds? They have to be from a given source. IIRC this was the major source of Monsanto's controversies, they claimed that their seed genomes were covered under patent law and farmers were not allowed to grow more plants using the seeds from their existing plants. They'd have to buy more seeds from Monsanto every season.

kevin_thibedeau 5y ago
More like you're not allowed to use patented genestock that pollinated your own non-Monsanto crop.
- wincy 5y ago
  Isn’t this the equivalent of if your neighbors prize bull got out and impregnated your entire herd of cows, trying to then sue your neighbor for theft of property?
  - kaydub 5y ago
    From what I've read it'd be more equivalent of the bull getting out, you hearing about it and going to look for the bull, then forcing the bull to inseminate all your cows knowing that your neighbor typically charges $10k per.
- JamisonM 5y ago
  I don't think this is an accurate characterization of the issue, if you are referencing the Schmeiser case then that wasn't the basis for Monsanto's complaint (although it was the basis of his failed defence).