4 ms·

god damnit no. the issue is NOT rates, the issue is NOT security, the issue is NOT how "nice" the company is, the issue IS international support. Paypal are "w

god damnit no. the issue is NOT rates, the issue is NOT security, the issue is NOT how "nice" the company is, the issue IS international support. Paypal are "winning" and will forever "win" because they support EVERYONE. Finding a person who can't use Paypal (who is over the age of 18 and isn't a previously terminated customer) is very hard because it supports (almost) EVERYONE yet these "new" "paypal killers" don't and they won't gain any traction because of this. and even then there are still bigger issues, but the biggest issue is international support.

BasDirks 15y ago
Can't send money to a Russian friend over PayPal.[1] [1] http://profy.com/2011/08/30/paypal%E2%80%99s-epic-fail-in-russia-and-ukraine/ http://profy.com/2011/08/30/paypal%E2%80%99s-epic-fail-in-ru...
- tomas_lin 15y ago
  or Lebanon ( http://paypaldev.org/yaf_postst6666_Paypal-in-Lebanon.aspx http://paypaldev.org/yaf_postst6666_Paypal-in-Lebanon.aspx )
dangrossman 15y ago
The #1 issue to hit "live chat" support on my sites is potential customers in Pakistan hitting a roadblock because they can't use PayPal. There are over 60 countries where PayPal is not available.
ary 15y ago
I hear you. Though you have to admit that Paypal's heavy-handed "fraud protection" is a big part of why people want a viable competitor.
- dangrossman 15y ago
  Compared to my own experiences with even normal merchant account providers, and what I've read of 3rd party processors like 2Checkout, and looking at the state of payment processing for adult sites... if the same people that use PayPal and had problems with fraud were to go anywhere else, they'd probably find it even worse. You only hear about PayPal because it's so ubiquitous with 232 million accounts, so many of them with no other experience with any other method of accepting payments.
  - JoshTriplett 15y ago
    It's a difference in expectation. PayPal tips the balance incredibly far in favor of the person spending money, to the point of royally screwing people who receive money, because far more of the former exist and the latter want to get paid. People don't just want another PayPal, they want something less broken. We could do with some decently balanced payment systems, as well as a few "caveat emptor, all sales final" systems, but all of them have to get traction with the people spending money and those people don't see any problem with PayPal.
- gst 15y ago
  There are lots of bad stories about Paypal, but I've made a different experience today: Paypal: Used it for years without any problems so far. As buyer and as seller. Dwolla: Registered an account several weeks (months?) ago. Didn't use it since then. Today I've tried to log into my account and it seems that essentially the account has been locked and I'm required to upload a photo ID in order to get my account unlocked. So it seems that other payment providers aren't really better than Paypal. I'm glad I don't have any money stored on Dwolla - let's see how they handle the situation.
- nikcub 15y ago
  my theory is that any payment provider that grows large enough will eventually become just like PayPal when you enable international processing fraud rates spike (double-digit percentages in some countries) and you end up building an agressive fraud protection scheme like PayPal have the new startups have the advantage of only serving a relatively small less risky market, and being obscure enough not to be a target of fraud groups these new startups have nice features such as simple API's etc. but I haven't seen anything yet that is revolutionary in terms of technology that will break out of the fraud/blocking cycle Edit: to add, I am not being dismissive of the new startups, on the contrary I am using Swipe on a new product, and I really do hope that one of these guys nails this space
pjg 15y ago
@citricsquid International support will come over time. However Noca is more like a better alternative to Authorize.net. Paypal in shopping cart takes the Consumer away from Merchant site and requires the Consumer to have an account i.e. sign-up. Even with Paypal's high userbase only 1 out of 3 or 4 users in the US have an active Paypal account. Not a good idea to potentially loose majority of Payors/Buyers simply 'cause they don't have Paypal accounts
- Fizzer 15y ago
  PayPal does not require an account. Simply click the "Pay as guest" link and it presents a standard billing form. Further, when you're a small site, I'd think it's preferable to redirect your customers to Paypal's site when they enter their billing information as it gives them confidence that it's secure. As a user myself, I would think twice before typing my CC info into a small obscure website, as I have no idea what kind of security measures they have in place (https is only one piece of the puzzle).
- dorian-graph 15y ago
  I'm in Australia and am dying for a good alternative to PayPal.
- foobarbazetc 15y ago
  "International support will come over time." Hehehehe. That's what everyone says when they're getting into the payment game.

BasDirks 15y ago

Can't send money to a Russian friend over PayPal.[1] [1] http://profy.com/2011/08/30/paypal%E2%80%99s-epic-fail-in-russia-and-ukraine/ http://profy.com/2011/08/30/paypal%E2%80%99s-epic-fail-in-ru...

tomas_lin 15y ago
or Lebanon ( http://paypaldev.org/yaf_postst6666_Paypal-in-Lebanon.aspx http://paypaldev.org/yaf_postst6666_Paypal-in-Lebanon.aspx )

dangrossman 15y ago

The #1 issue to hit "live chat" support on my sites is potential customers in Pakistan hitting a roadblock because they can't use PayPal. There are over 60 countries where PayPal is not available.

ary 15y ago

I hear you. Though you have to admit that Paypal's heavy-handed "fraud protection" is a big part of why people want a viable competitor.

dangrossman 15y ago
Compared to my own experiences with even normal merchant account providers, and what I've read of 3rd party processors like 2Checkout, and looking at the state of payment processing for adult sites... if the same people that use PayPal and had problems with fraud were to go anywhere else, they'd probably find it even worse. You only hear about PayPal because it's so ubiquitous with 232 million accounts, so many of them with no other experience with any other method of accepting payments.
- JoshTriplett 15y ago
  It's a difference in expectation. PayPal tips the balance incredibly far in favor of the person spending money, to the point of royally screwing people who receive money, because far more of the former exist and the latter want to get paid. People don't just want another PayPal, they want something less broken. We could do with some decently balanced payment systems, as well as a few "caveat emptor, all sales final" systems, but all of them have to get traction with the people spending money and those people don't see any problem with PayPal.
gst 15y ago
There are lots of bad stories about Paypal, but I've made a different experience today: Paypal: Used it for years without any problems so far. As buyer and as seller. Dwolla: Registered an account several weeks (months?) ago. Didn't use it since then. Today I've tried to log into my account and it seems that essentially the account has been locked and I'm required to upload a photo ID in order to get my account unlocked. So it seems that other payment providers aren't really better than Paypal. I'm glad I don't have any money stored on Dwolla - let's see how they handle the situation.
nikcub 15y ago
my theory is that any payment provider that grows large enough will eventually become just like PayPal when you enable international processing fraud rates spike (double-digit percentages in some countries) and you end up building an agressive fraud protection scheme like PayPal have the new startups have the advantage of only serving a relatively small less risky market, and being obscure enough not to be a target of fraud groups these new startups have nice features such as simple API's etc. but I haven't seen anything yet that is revolutionary in terms of technology that will break out of the fraud/blocking cycle Edit: to add, I am not being dismissive of the new startups, on the contrary I am using Swipe on a new product, and I really do hope that one of these guys nails this space

pjg 15y ago

@citricsquid International support will come over time. However Noca is more like a better alternative to Authorize.net. Paypal in shopping cart takes the Consumer away from Merchant site and requires the Consumer to have an account i.e. sign-up. Even with Paypal's high userbase only 1 out of 3 or 4 users in the US have an active Paypal account. Not a good idea to potentially loose majority of Payors/Buyers simply 'cause they don't have Paypal accounts

Fizzer 15y ago
PayPal does not require an account. Simply click the "Pay as guest" link and it presents a standard billing form. Further, when you're a small site, I'd think it's preferable to redirect your customers to Paypal's site when they enter their billing information as it gives them confidence that it's secure. As a user myself, I would think twice before typing my CC info into a small obscure website, as I have no idea what kind of security measures they have in place (https is only one piece of the puzzle).
dorian-graph 15y ago
I'm in Australia and am dying for a good alternative to PayPal.
foobarbazetc 15y ago
"International support will come over time." Hehehehe. That's what everyone says when they're getting into the payment game.