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I know PJ, who runs Noca. He's been working on it for several years (it used to be called Paybl). Unfortunately it suffers from the same problems as every other

I know PJ, who runs Noca. He's been working on it for several years (it used to be called Paybl). Unfortunately it suffers from the same problems as every other payment system in California that is regulated by the Money Transmission Act, which is to say it's basically illegal as of July 1. Then again, maybe he's changed the business model in some way I'm not aware of. See... http://www.quora.com/Aaron-Greenspan/In-Fifty-Days-Payments-Innovation-Will-Stop-In-Silicon-Valley http://www.quora.com/Aaron-Greenspan/In-Fifty-Days-Payments-... http://www.thinkcomputer.com/corporate/whitepapers/heldhostage.pdf http://www.thinkcomputer.com/corporate/whitepapers/heldhosta... This isn't the first time I've seen a "finally, a real PayPal competitor!" post on Hacker News. I don't think people get it. There isn't going to be one any time soon. PayPal raised a hundred million dollars. It has licenses in 45-ish states and Washington, D.C. that cost about ten million dollars alone. It supports multiple currencies. The dot com boom (and the comparative lack of regulation at the time) is just about the only thing that allowed PayPal to exist. Venture capitalists (and banks) know better now, and they're not enthusiastic about investing in red tape just so Jamie Dimon and friends can make more of it.

callmeed 15y ago
Interesting. If that's truly the case, I'd try and shop this to a bank (Chase?) that could help clear those hurdles and let them run like a startup still.
- thinkcomp 15y ago
  Never going to happen. Chase just launched its first person-to-person payment platform. It's terrible. Despite being for Chase customers only, it's not even real-time. How long did it take them to build it post-PayPal you might ask? Twelve years.
  - pjg 15y ago
    Google "c2it" it was a P2P competitor launched by Citibank circa 2000 to take on Paypal. Never went anywhere. So I generally agree that Chase's attempt (combined with Wells and BoA - which I believe are other two banks in the consortium called ClearXexchange ) is unlikely to succeed unless they have some "out of the box approach"
pjg 15y ago
@Aaron (and others who want to change the current payments landscape): Noca is more of competitor to Authorize.net than it is to Paypal. "Paypal competitor" headline was written by Techcrunch - not by Noca. As anyone who has been "Techcrunch'ed" knows they don't get to say what they want but instead what Techcrunch wants to about them (No complaints here - I was aware of this when I talked to Techcrunch) Unfortunately I have little control on how to steer information about my company once the "buzz" has been created. I will regardless continue to do what I believe in i.e. Build a payment system that doesn't suck! I have been doing it for a while and the opportunity simply keeps getting bigger. Noca did start with Check payments, however we've pivoted to doing Credit Cards (the reason/explanation is long, maybe I'll post it sometime ) About the Money Transfer licenses - it's not required for Credit Card transactions. Also for "Check" transactions there are limitations and exclusions. If we need to operate without restrictions we will need Money Transfer License, but can operate within restrictions
- nikcub 15y ago
  Just a tip - bloggers will fill in parts of the narrative that you haven't fed them. Readers love comparisons - 'heroku for x' , etc. and if you don't give them one, they will create one for you tech savvy ppl may roll their eyes at the comparison headlines and call them out for being lazy - but since readers spend seconds scanning headlines you need something that can be grokked by non-tech users quickly
pbreit 15y ago
thinkcomp, why the crusade to out every payments related startup with your lay-person opinion that what they are doing is illegal? We wouldn't know for sure until an actual action is brought. As WePay has suggested, there may be ways to conform inexpensively. And other companies may have more appetite for risk, and as PayPal did, wait for success before becoming fully conformant.
- thinkcomp 15y ago
  Patrick, Crusade? It affects all of us. Read the law yourself: http://www.dfi.ca.gov/licensees/moneytransmitters/ http://www.dfi.ca.gov/licensees/moneytransmitters/ If an actual action were brought, PJ (or I or anyone running such a company) could be in jail. But perhaps you're willing to take the risk? Aaron
  - foobarbazetc 15y ago
    You need to stop posting this stuff on HN every time anything payment related comes up.

callmeed 15y ago

Interesting. If that's truly the case, I'd try and shop this to a bank (Chase?) that could help clear those hurdles and let them run like a startup still.

thinkcomp 15y ago
Never going to happen. Chase just launched its first person-to-person payment platform. It's terrible. Despite being for Chase customers only, it's not even real-time. How long did it take them to build it post-PayPal you might ask? Twelve years.
- pjg 15y ago
  Google "c2it" it was a P2P competitor launched by Citibank circa 2000 to take on Paypal. Never went anywhere. So I generally agree that Chase's attempt (combined with Wells and BoA - which I believe are other two banks in the consortium called ClearXexchange ) is unlikely to succeed unless they have some "out of the box approach"

pjg 15y ago

@Aaron (and others who want to change the current payments landscape): Noca is more of competitor to Authorize.net than it is to Paypal. "Paypal competitor" headline was written by Techcrunch - not by Noca. As anyone who has been "Techcrunch'ed" knows they don't get to say what they want but instead what Techcrunch wants to about them (No complaints here - I was aware of this when I talked to Techcrunch) Unfortunately I have little control on how to steer information about my company once the "buzz" has been created. I will regardless continue to do what I believe in i.e. Build a payment system that doesn't suck! I have been doing it for a while and the opportunity simply keeps getting bigger. Noca did start with Check payments, however we've pivoted to doing Credit Cards (the reason/explanation is long, maybe I'll post it sometime ) About the Money Transfer licenses - it's not required for Credit Card transactions. Also for "Check" transactions there are limitations and exclusions. If we need to operate without restrictions we will need Money Transfer License, but can operate within restrictions

nikcub 15y ago
Just a tip - bloggers will fill in parts of the narrative that you haven't fed them. Readers love comparisons - 'heroku for x' , etc. and if you don't give them one, they will create one for you tech savvy ppl may roll their eyes at the comparison headlines and call them out for being lazy - but since readers spend seconds scanning headlines you need something that can be grokked by non-tech users quickly

pbreit 15y ago

thinkcomp, why the crusade to out every payments related startup with your lay-person opinion that what they are doing is illegal? We wouldn't know for sure until an actual action is brought. As WePay has suggested, there may be ways to conform inexpensively. And other companies may have more appetite for risk, and as PayPal did, wait for success before becoming fully conformant.

thinkcomp 15y ago
Patrick, Crusade? It affects all of us. Read the law yourself: http://www.dfi.ca.gov/licensees/moneytransmitters/ http://www.dfi.ca.gov/licensees/moneytransmitters/ If an actual action were brought, PJ (or I or anyone running such a company) could be in jail. But perhaps you're willing to take the risk? Aaron
- foobarbazetc 15y ago
  You need to stop posting this stuff on HN every time anything payment related comes up.