6 ms·

I read this post earlier today, and found it quite shocking. I really hope this is an exception rather than the normal. I previously didn't think about it this

by sva_ 5y ago

I read this post earlier today, and found it quite shocking. I really hope this is an exception rather than the normal. I previously didn't think about it this way, and thought closing schools was the more sensible choice. But we're failing a whole generation like this. It more and more feels like we live in a society that sarcrifices their young, just to keep old people on their life support machines a little longer. Yeah, that's hyperbole. I don't know what's the right path, tbh.

odonnellryan 5y ago
We can't exactly ask teachers to get covid can we?
- strombofulous 5y ago
  Devil's advocate: We were fine asking grocery store clerks, baristas, and cashiers to get covid
  - lotsofpulp 5y ago
    And perfectly fine with RSV risks: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33015684/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33015684/
vanilla_nut 5y ago
I found it shocking at first. Then I thought about the shitshow that is any kind of organization in high schools. Then I thought about the utter confusion that my own school had trying to set up a simple website. Then I wasn't so surprised any more. Just disappointed.
stefan_ 5y ago
I don't understand. This is what you took away from this? I thought this post shows that keeping schools open is an absolute fantasy. This is one of the best funded schools in NYC; it's going to be absolute shambles in the rest of them.
- sva_ 5y ago
  It seemed to me like remote schooling leads to students not paying attention at all (in particular younger students who need guidance), and just minimizing the stream while doing other stuff, based on other posts I read. Hence it seems like a lose-lose.
- im3w1l 5y ago
  What I took away is that at some point we have to return to normal. Give up. Let it spread. Do away with testing. Tell students and teachers to come in if they have mild, cold-like symptoms.
- renewiltord 5y ago
  At some point we have to face the facts: NYC’s school admins aren’t good enough. Private schools have been open in California for ages. But this is normal. Public school workers are deep mediocre workers. Most of the time they skate by being mediocre. But this moment demanded that they do their job well. They, challenged to act outside mediocrity, found their skills wanting.
trailingComma 5y ago
You think a school being basically worthless when open because large numbers of teachers have become ill from infection spread, is some how a criticism of closing schools to prevent infection spread?
- umvi 5y ago
  Are large numbers of teachers ill or large numbers of teachers too fearful/cautious to come in? If the former... in my own experience almost everyone fully recovers from covid without hospitalization in less than 2 weeks. So if dozens of teachers got sick... most or all should be back next week.
  - simfree 5y ago
    Great, close the school till there is adequate staffing to teach the curriculum. Warehousing students is wrong (especially so when creating a super spreader study hall), our school systems should not hold kids hostage with threats like charging a kid with truancy if the school is not fully staffed.
    - dustintrex 5y ago
      There are many students for whom "warehousing" is considerably better than the alternatives. https://freddiedeboer.substack.com/p/many-kids-dont-have-a-warm-safe-healthy https://freddiedeboer.substack.com/p/many-kids-dont-have-a-w...
CharlesW 5y ago
> It more and more feels like we live in a society that sarcrifices their young, just to keep old people on their life support machines a little longer. Unfortunately, "let COVID run rampant and kill olds and other at-risk people" isn't a great strategy. And are people in their 40s-50s "old people on life support machines"? Because COVID-19 was the leading cause of death for people ages 45-54 years as recently as October.¹ Yes, it's only the #2 leading cause of death for those 25-34 in that same time period, and lower still for children. But death isn't the only negative outcome. We now know that SARS-CoV-2 infection increases the odds of kids getting Type 1 diabetes, can worsen existing diabetes symptoms, and in turn, people with diabetes are at increased risk for severe COVID-19. There are long-term health and quality-of-life impacts that we don't yet understand. The good news is that with 9.4B vaccine doses administered we know how to return to relative normalcy. We just aren't doing it, for reasons that have nothing to do with facts and reason. ¹https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/brief/covid19-and-other-leading-causes-of-death-in-the-us/ https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/brief/covid19-and-other-...
- dpark 5y ago
  > we know how to return to relative normalcy. We just aren't doing it, for reasons that have nothing to do with facts and reason. I would absolutely love to know what this plan you mention is. Because I absolutely do not know if any real path back to normalcy.
  - eftychis 5y ago
    Well the tools we have are vaccination and avoiding human contact. We don't do either. Unlike what politicians say the models and prior history simply say you got to vaccinate everyoe that can get vaccinated. Also we need international soft real time cooperation and transparency. We are incapable of either. It is just that COVID has the sweet spot of being transmissible but not causing grueling enough of deaths like measles or the plague so some people may ignore it or believe they can skip vaccination until it's their turn. And of course this is the perfect environment for a virus to mutate. Also there is the misinformation that the virus has to become less deadly or has less long term impact as it mutates. I have no idea who had that bright idea and why it propagates. See the plague who as bubonic has the optimal close to 100% transmission and 100% fatality rate. People are still in denial and we all pay the price. So the plan is just masses of people to get actually fed up and force things into other masses of people and slowly drag our economies to the ground, as pandemics do normally.
dehrmann 5y ago
> we live in a society that sarcrifices their young... Maybe. The other thing I've been seeing is a lot of leaders not making hard choices and picking the perpetual compromise path that never leads anywhere.
TrispusAttucks 5y ago
Yeah. It's okay for these kids to be sent off to die in war the day after graduation but keep the boomers away from illness.

by sva_ 5y ago

odonnellryan 5y ago

We can't exactly ask teachers to get covid can we?

strombofulous 5y ago
Devil's advocate: We were fine asking grocery store clerks, baristas, and cashiers to get covid
- lotsofpulp 5y ago
  And perfectly fine with RSV risks: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33015684/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33015684/

vanilla_nut 5y ago

I found it shocking at first. Then I thought about the shitshow that is any kind of organization in high schools. Then I thought about the utter confusion that my own school had trying to set up a simple website. Then I wasn't so surprised any more. Just disappointed.

stefan_ 5y ago

I don't understand. This is what you took away from this? I thought this post shows that keeping schools open is an absolute fantasy. This is one of the best funded schools in NYC; it's going to be absolute shambles in the rest of them.

sva_ 5y ago
It seemed to me like remote schooling leads to students not paying attention at all (in particular younger students who need guidance), and just minimizing the stream while doing other stuff, based on other posts I read. Hence it seems like a lose-lose.
im3w1l 5y ago
What I took away is that at some point we have to return to normal. Give up. Let it spread. Do away with testing. Tell students and teachers to come in if they have mild, cold-like symptoms.
renewiltord 5y ago
At some point we have to face the facts: NYC’s school admins aren’t good enough. Private schools have been open in California for ages. But this is normal. Public school workers are deep mediocre workers. Most of the time they skate by being mediocre. But this moment demanded that they do their job well. They, challenged to act outside mediocrity, found their skills wanting.

trailingComma 5y ago

You think a school being basically worthless when open because large numbers of teachers have become ill from infection spread, is some how a criticism of closing schools to prevent infection spread?

umvi 5y ago
Are large numbers of teachers ill or large numbers of teachers too fearful/cautious to come in? If the former... in my own experience almost everyone fully recovers from covid without hospitalization in less than 2 weeks. So if dozens of teachers got sick... most or all should be back next week.
- simfree 5y ago
  Great, close the school till there is adequate staffing to teach the curriculum. Warehousing students is wrong (especially so when creating a super spreader study hall), our school systems should not hold kids hostage with threats like charging a kid with truancy if the school is not fully staffed.
  - dustintrex 5y ago
    There are many students for whom "warehousing" is considerably better than the alternatives. https://freddiedeboer.substack.com/p/many-kids-dont-have-a-warm-safe-healthy https://freddiedeboer.substack.com/p/many-kids-dont-have-a-w...

CharlesW 5y ago

> It more and more feels like we live in a society that sarcrifices their young, just to keep old people on their life support machines a little longer. Unfortunately, "let COVID run rampant and kill olds and other at-risk people" isn't a great strategy. And are people in their 40s-50s "old people on life support machines"? Because COVID-19 was the leading cause of death for people ages 45-54 years as recently as October.¹ Yes, it's only the #2 leading cause of death for those 25-34 in that same time period, and lower still for children. But death isn't the only negative outcome. We now know that SARS-CoV-2 infection increases the odds of kids getting Type 1 diabetes, can worsen existing diabetes symptoms, and in turn, people with diabetes are at increased risk for severe COVID-19. There are long-term health and quality-of-life impacts that we don't yet understand. The good news is that with 9.4B vaccine doses administered we know how to return to relative normalcy. We just aren't doing it, for reasons that have nothing to do with facts and reason. ¹https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/brief/covid19-and-other-leading-causes-of-death-in-the-us/ https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/brief/covid19-and-other-...

dpark 5y ago
> we know how to return to relative normalcy. We just aren't doing it, for reasons that have nothing to do with facts and reason. I would absolutely love to know what this plan you mention is. Because I absolutely do not know if any real path back to normalcy.
- eftychis 5y ago
  Well the tools we have are vaccination and avoiding human contact. We don't do either. Unlike what politicians say the models and prior history simply say you got to vaccinate everyoe that can get vaccinated. Also we need international soft real time cooperation and transparency. We are incapable of either. It is just that COVID has the sweet spot of being transmissible but not causing grueling enough of deaths like measles or the plague so some people may ignore it or believe they can skip vaccination until it's their turn. And of course this is the perfect environment for a virus to mutate. Also there is the misinformation that the virus has to become less deadly or has less long term impact as it mutates. I have no idea who had that bright idea and why it propagates. See the plague who as bubonic has the optimal close to 100% transmission and 100% fatality rate. People are still in denial and we all pay the price. So the plan is just masses of people to get actually fed up and force things into other masses of people and slowly drag our economies to the ground, as pandemics do normally.

dehrmann 5y ago

> we live in a society that sarcrifices their young... Maybe. The other thing I've been seeing is a lot of leaders not making hard choices and picking the perpetual compromise path that never leads anywhere.

TrispusAttucks 5y ago

Yeah. It's okay for these kids to be sent off to die in war the day after graduation but keep the boomers away from illness.