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Thank you. All I was looking to do was convince someone that crypto does indeed provide a theoretical benefit, so that the conversation could evolve from "crypt

Thank you. All I was looking to do was convince someone that crypto does indeed provide a theoretical benefit, so that the conversation could evolve from "crypto SUCKS, and it doesn't do ANYTHING GOOD, and its a SCAM (read: I lost money speculating), and I DON'T LIKE IT", to: are the problems that crypto solves worth the costs. Other problems/solutions aside, there is probably some gas fee that would make crypto worth it just for anti-counterfeiting. Do you have any sources for a numeric estimate on what counterfeiting costs the US economy?

p1esk 5y ago
Yes, counterfeiting is a problem. But just to clarify, to solve it - are you proposing we replace US dollar with bitcoin? If you are, have you thought this through? Has anyone? Do you think this will happen in the foreseeable future?
- grog454 5y ago
  Thinking this through is exactly what I want the conversation to be about. I'll help you out: [2006] "Counterfeiting of the currency of the United States is widely attempted. According to the United States Department of Treasury, an estimated $70 million in counterfeit bills are in circulation, or approximately 1 note in counterfeits for every 10,000 in genuine currency, with an upper bound of $200 million counterfeit, or 1 counterfeit per 4,000 genuine notes.[1][2] However, these numbers are based on annual seizure rates on counterfeiting, and the actual stock of counterfeit money is uncertain because some counterfeit notes successfully circulate for a few transactions." (source: https://www.treasury.gov/about/organizational-structure/offices/Domestic-Finance/Documents/the%20use%20and%20counterfeiting%20of%20u.s.%20currency%20abroad%20%20part%203%20september2006.pdf https://www.treasury.gov/about/organizational-structure/offi...) I think Bitcoin representing the totality of USD is infeasible, but there may be some adjustments or optimizations to the transaction costs associated with it that make a new currency seem more reasonable (no less scary, certainly, but fright is an emotion and economics is mathematical). (edited quote to be more relevant to cryptocurrency specifically)
  - p1esk 5y ago
    I'm confused, is the problem counterfeit currency, or counterfeit goods? Because if latter, I don't see how crypto is relevant, and if former it does not seem like such a huge problem: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counterfeit_United_States_currency https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counterfeit_United_States_curr...
    - grog454 5y ago
      Fixed my quote. At this point I'm having a conversation with myself, so mistakes are bound to become more likely. I'll probably revisit this in a few days (or just take my thoughts elsewhere) but for now I'm out!
      - ben_w 5y ago
        Awesome! I find it really pleasantly surprising when people take time to sit and think about things rather than reacting quickly, so regardless of whether or not I find myself agreeing with whatever conclusions you reach, I appreciate you doing this :)

p1esk 5y ago

Yes, counterfeiting is a problem. But just to clarify, to solve it - are you proposing we replace US dollar with bitcoin? If you are, have you thought this through? Has anyone? Do you think this will happen in the foreseeable future?

grog454 5y ago
Thinking this through is exactly what I want the conversation to be about. I'll help you out: [2006] "Counterfeiting of the currency of the United States is widely attempted. According to the United States Department of Treasury, an estimated $70 million in counterfeit bills are in circulation, or approximately 1 note in counterfeits for every 10,000 in genuine currency, with an upper bound of $200 million counterfeit, or 1 counterfeit per 4,000 genuine notes.[1][2] However, these numbers are based on annual seizure rates on counterfeiting, and the actual stock of counterfeit money is uncertain because some counterfeit notes successfully circulate for a few transactions." (source: https://www.treasury.gov/about/organizational-structure/offices/Domestic-Finance/Documents/the%20use%20and%20counterfeiting%20of%20u.s.%20currency%20abroad%20%20part%203%20september2006.pdf https://www.treasury.gov/about/organizational-structure/offi...) I think Bitcoin representing the totality of USD is infeasible, but there may be some adjustments or optimizations to the transaction costs associated with it that make a new currency seem more reasonable (no less scary, certainly, but fright is an emotion and economics is mathematical). (edited quote to be more relevant to cryptocurrency specifically)
- p1esk 5y ago
  I'm confused, is the problem counterfeit currency, or counterfeit goods? Because if latter, I don't see how crypto is relevant, and if former it does not seem like such a huge problem: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counterfeit_United_States_currency https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counterfeit_United_States_curr...
  - grog454 5y ago
    Fixed my quote. At this point I'm having a conversation with myself, so mistakes are bound to become more likely. I'll probably revisit this in a few days (or just take my thoughts elsewhere) but for now I'm out!
    - ben_w 5y ago
      Awesome! I find it really pleasantly surprising when people take time to sit and think about things rather than reacting quickly, so regardless of whether or not I find myself agreeing with whatever conclusions you reach, I appreciate you doing this :)