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>There are very few such governments on earth, all things considered I'm not going to wade into any of the crypto arguments here but your repeated downplaying

by mthoms 5y ago

>There are very few such governments on earth, all things considered I'm not going to wade into any of the crypto arguments here but your repeated downplaying of dysfunctional/authoritarian/corrupt/failing governments seems entirely disconnected with the reality that tens, perhaps hundreds[0], of millions of people live every day. Just because true democracy is a hard thing to define (per your previous comment), doesn't make oppressive governments any less oppressive. There are lots of valid complaints about Crypto and NFT's, but the argument that poor government is not that bad of a global problem "all things considered" is an absolutely terrible one. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Index_of_Economic_Freedom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Index_of_Economic_Freedom and https://www.fraserinstitute.org/studies/economic-freedom-of-the-world-2021-annual-report https://www.fraserinstitute.org/studies/economic-freedom-of-...

dmitriid 5y ago
> but your repeated downplaying of dysfunctional/authoritarian/corrupt/failing governments seems entirely disconnected Again: stop inventing the arguments that are not there. The only people who are downplaying dysfunctonal governments are the crypto shills and crypto peddlers. If you actually took care and read what I wrote instead of imagining what I wrote, you'd see that never did I downplay dysfunctional governments. > doesn't make oppressive governments any less oppressive. Literally nowhere I said this. > but the argument that poor government is not that bad of a global problem "all things considered" is an absolutely terrible one. If only there was a single person here who made this argument. Also, an oppressive government does not a dysfunctional government make. So, in the course of just a few sentences you made these claims: - that I downplayed dysfunctional/authoritarian/corrupt/failing governments. I didn't - that I somehow argued that oppressive gvernments are not that oppressive. I didn't - that somehow authoritarian/oppressive is equal to dysfunctional. It isn't, necessarily. What I did write was: - the vast majority of people in this world do not live in dysfunctional governments - crypto makes the problems with dysfunctional governments worse: your "assets that goverment can't steal" have to be somehow converted into food/clothing/shelter etc. which makes you a target for Rubber-hose cryptanalysis etc. Any other "assets" are worthless because your "non fungible proof of ownership on blockchain" on your house, car, and other physical items are woth exactly zero even in a functional government, much less in a dysfunctional one. So. "All things considered", what's your opposition to what I wrote and not to what you imagine I wrote?
- mthoms 5y ago
  >So. "All things considered", what's your opposition to what I wrote and not to what you imagine I wrote? OK. Lets' start here. Do you have citation for any of these gems? > the vast majority of people in this world do not live in dysfunctional governments > There are very few such governments on earth, all things considered Anyone who would write such subjective, unprovable "facts" with the certainty you did is not interested in honest debate. Please read the links I provided regarding economic freedoms in the world. China alone is ~ 20% of the worlds population and has currency controls prohibiting its citizens from spending their own money how they wish. That's a single country. As I said, I'm not here to debate the merits of crypto. I'm here because you are coming across as minimizing the economic struggles of millions of people. If that's not what you intended then fine - feel free to clarify. But that's how you are coming across (in additional to being generally aggressive and angry). Having said that, I would challenge you to provide support for this assertion: > crypto makes the problems with dysfunctional governments worse Unless I'm mistaken, you seem to think that people can't/don't cash out abroad. Or that they can't wait until the economic/political system is safer to cash out domestically. Am I understanding that correctly? As an aside: because you started your reply with "Again...", I suspect you didn't notice that this is our first interaction, and I'm not the other commenter you are engaged with. I suspect some of your anger/confusion is because you are confusing us?
  - dmitriid 5y ago
    > Please read the links I provided regarding economic freedoms in the world. China alone is ~ 20% of the worlds population and has currency controls prohibiting its citizens I will only answer this because it's both hillarious and sad that crypto peddelrs have literally zero understanding of how the world works. - Does China have currency controls? Yes - Is China an authoritarian regime for some unspecified definition of authoritarian? Yes - Does this mean it's dysfunctional and its citizens need help from crypto? Ahahahaha, no. And here's why. An average person in a functioning state couldn't care less about not being able to spend some other country's currency somewhere else. - Does China have a functioning government? Yes - Does China have functioning banks? Yes - Does China have means by which its citizens can procure and use goods and services? A resounding yes. As an example, on Singles Day AliPay alone handles over a bllion orders a day. - Does China have means by which its citizens can participate in global economy including, but not limited to trading with other countries? A resounding yes. Between the EU, the US and Japan China does almost 2 trillion of dollars of international trade. Hobbyists and entusiasts all around the world routinely order made-to-order things from small companies and individuals in China. etc. etc. etc. > I'm here because you are coming across as minimizing the economic struggles of millions of people. Once again, stop pretending I'm doing and saying something I'm not. The only ones who minimise and frankly have no idea about struggles of millions of people are crypto peddlers in this thread. I mean, you are literally saying that people in China are struggling because they cannot do currency speculation. How out of touch with real world can you be? > Unless I'm mistaken, you seem to think that people can't/don't cash out abroad. Yes, you are mistaken. I never, at any point in the conversation ever even talked about taking cash abroad. And since you decided to present China as an example... Have you never seen a Chinese tourist? They have no problems taking cash abroad it seems. > I suspect you didn't notice that this is our first interaction I honestly can't distinguish between people with identical behaviours. > I suspect some of your anger/confusion is because you are confusing us? I suspect my anger is because you are identical: - you invent arguments your opponent never produced - you have literally no understanding of the world around you. For example, an authoritarian regime is not necessarily dysfunctional, and people in authoritarian regimes don't necessarily suffer. Yet, you keep pretending it's the same things, and people necessarily suffer - You keep pretending that the only thing people en messe care about is currencies, and are suffering if they can't buy/spend other currencies than their countries'. And on and on and on. This is my last post in this pointless thread. Do come back when you have learned: - how to answer what your opponent said, not what you imagine your opponent said, and - how the world works. Go visit China, for example.

by mthoms 5y ago

dmitriid 5y ago

> but your repeated downplaying of dysfunctional/authoritarian/corrupt/failing governments seems entirely disconnected Again: stop inventing the arguments that are not there. The only people who are downplaying dysfunctonal governments are the crypto shills and crypto peddlers. If you actually took care and read what I wrote instead of imagining what I wrote, you'd see that never did I downplay dysfunctional governments. > doesn't make oppressive governments any less oppressive. Literally nowhere I said this. > but the argument that poor government is not that bad of a global problem "all things considered" is an absolutely terrible one. If only there was a single person here who made this argument. Also, an oppressive government does not a dysfunctional government make. So, in the course of just a few sentences you made these claims: - that I downplayed dysfunctional/authoritarian/corrupt/failing governments. I didn't - that I somehow argued that oppressive gvernments are not that oppressive. I didn't - that somehow authoritarian/oppressive is equal to dysfunctional. It isn't, necessarily. What I did write was: - the vast majority of people in this world do not live in dysfunctional governments - crypto makes the problems with dysfunctional governments worse: your "assets that goverment can't steal" have to be somehow converted into food/clothing/shelter etc. which makes you a target for Rubber-hose cryptanalysis etc. Any other "assets" are worthless because your "non fungible proof of ownership on blockchain" on your house, car, and other physical items are woth exactly zero even in a functional government, much less in a dysfunctional one. So. "All things considered", what's your opposition to what I wrote and not to what you imagine I wrote?

mthoms 5y ago
>So. "All things considered", what's your opposition to what I wrote and not to what you imagine I wrote? OK. Lets' start here. Do you have citation for any of these gems? > the vast majority of people in this world do not live in dysfunctional governments > There are very few such governments on earth, all things considered Anyone who would write such subjective, unprovable "facts" with the certainty you did is not interested in honest debate. Please read the links I provided regarding economic freedoms in the world. China alone is ~ 20% of the worlds population and has currency controls prohibiting its citizens from spending their own money how they wish. That's a single country. As I said, I'm not here to debate the merits of crypto. I'm here because you are coming across as minimizing the economic struggles of millions of people. If that's not what you intended then fine - feel free to clarify. But that's how you are coming across (in additional to being generally aggressive and angry). Having said that, I would challenge you to provide support for this assertion: > crypto makes the problems with dysfunctional governments worse Unless I'm mistaken, you seem to think that people can't/don't cash out abroad. Or that they can't wait until the economic/political system is safer to cash out domestically. Am I understanding that correctly? As an aside: because you started your reply with "Again...", I suspect you didn't notice that this is our first interaction, and I'm not the other commenter you are engaged with. I suspect some of your anger/confusion is because you are confusing us?
- dmitriid 5y ago
  > Please read the links I provided regarding economic freedoms in the world. China alone is ~ 20% of the worlds population and has currency controls prohibiting its citizens I will only answer this because it's both hillarious and sad that crypto peddelrs have literally zero understanding of how the world works. - Does China have currency controls? Yes - Is China an authoritarian regime for some unspecified definition of authoritarian? Yes - Does this mean it's dysfunctional and its citizens need help from crypto? Ahahahaha, no. And here's why. An average person in a functioning state couldn't care less about not being able to spend some other country's currency somewhere else. - Does China have a functioning government? Yes - Does China have functioning banks? Yes - Does China have means by which its citizens can procure and use goods and services? A resounding yes. As an example, on Singles Day AliPay alone handles over a bllion orders a day. - Does China have means by which its citizens can participate in global economy including, but not limited to trading with other countries? A resounding yes. Between the EU, the US and Japan China does almost 2 trillion of dollars of international trade. Hobbyists and entusiasts all around the world routinely order made-to-order things from small companies and individuals in China. etc. etc. etc. > I'm here because you are coming across as minimizing the economic struggles of millions of people. Once again, stop pretending I'm doing and saying something I'm not. The only ones who minimise and frankly have no idea about struggles of millions of people are crypto peddlers in this thread. I mean, you are literally saying that people in China are struggling because they cannot do currency speculation. How out of touch with real world can you be? > Unless I'm mistaken, you seem to think that people can't/don't cash out abroad. Yes, you are mistaken. I never, at any point in the conversation ever even talked about taking cash abroad. And since you decided to present China as an example... Have you never seen a Chinese tourist? They have no problems taking cash abroad it seems. > I suspect you didn't notice that this is our first interaction I honestly can't distinguish between people with identical behaviours. > I suspect some of your anger/confusion is because you are confusing us? I suspect my anger is because you are identical: - you invent arguments your opponent never produced - you have literally no understanding of the world around you. For example, an authoritarian regime is not necessarily dysfunctional, and people in authoritarian regimes don't necessarily suffer. Yet, you keep pretending it's the same things, and people necessarily suffer - You keep pretending that the only thing people en messe care about is currencies, and are suffering if they can't buy/spend other currencies than their countries'. And on and on and on. This is my last post in this pointless thread. Do come back when you have learned: - how to answer what your opponent said, not what you imagine your opponent said, and - how the world works. Go visit China, for example.