> That puts it at an energy return on energy invested of around 9, which is pretty damn bad. Is it, though? That sounds pretty awesome, specially as renewables

> That puts it at an energy return on energy invested of around 9, which is pretty damn bad. Is it, though? That sounds pretty awesome, specially as renewables lower/eliminate energy imports thus improve a country's balance of trade. Also, one aspect of renewables that results in energy dissipation/loss is energy storage. Wind and solar farms generate energy that don't coincide with peaks in demand, thus that production is stored and reintroduced in the grid resulting in a drop of efficiency. However, it would be stupid to argue that losses from, say, restocking the reservoir of a pumped storage hydroelectric plant, specially one which has been retrofitted as an energy reservoir, makes the technology worse than only generating power during periods where demand surpasses supply.