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Vitalik's Response to Moxie

43 points by bvaldivielso 5y ago

mwattsun 5y ago
Link to Vitalik's comment https://old.reddit.com/r/ethereum/comments/ryk3it/my_first_impressions_of_web3/hrrz15r/ https://old.reddit.com/r/ethereum/comments/ryk3it/my_first_i...
- bvaldivielso 5y ago
  Oops, my bad, I wanted to link to that. I cannot edit it now (maybe someone reading this can?)
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
digitcatphd 5y ago
His comments primarily address technological advancement, which are not necessarily the same as replacement of or even reliance on centralized systems. Platforms like OpenSea have a network effect and the marginal value of fully decentralized NFT trading or even the technical support (E.g. YouTube tutorials) of Metamask, for instance, does not outweigh the advantage for most users. Moreover, it's in the best interest of these centralized platforms to remain centralized as it creates user stickiness.
- arnvald 5y ago
  > Platforms like OpenSea have a network effect Exactly. Sellers will go wherever they can find the highest bidders. Buyers will go wherever they can find the best products. Eventually 1-2 winners + a few niche players will emerge and 99.9% of users will forget it was supposed to be decentralized
otterley 5y ago
“Moxie is right, but if we just replace what exists today with this totally different thing — an outcome which is by no means certain - we will have addressed his concerns.” You have to admire his optimism, even if it’s mixed with a whole lot of naïveté.
- boxmonster 5y ago
  He doesn't realize it but he's building a specialty product that can by used by places like art auction houses to prove provenance. They wil wait for him. The broader market wont. It doesn't care about that. They just want to collect and trade their digital "baseball cards".
- noman-land 5y ago
  3, 4, 5, and 6 don't seem _that_ hard such that they're impossible. It's not the tech's fault that the media hype and confused FOMO mania are playing out before it's ready.
  - jazzyjackson 5y ago
    Timing is central to Moxie’s argument - the market demanded something the protocol didn’t offer, so intermediaries filled the gap (and made bank). Once ETH2 is ready to fulfill these needs, the market will expect something more. From my reading, Moxie isn’t saying “ETH isn’t ready”, he’s saying “platforms move faster when they don’t have to wait for the protocol to make upgrades”
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- coldtea 5y ago
  Though it's not naivete if you profit out of something...
zeroimpl 5y ago
In case you missed the discussion on Moxie’s comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29845208 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29845208

43 points by bvaldivielso 5y ago

Link to Vitalik's comment https://old.reddit.com/r/ethereum/comments/ryk3it/my_first_impressions_of_web3/hrrz15r/ https://old.reddit.com/r/ethereum/comments/ryk3it/my_first_i...

bvaldivielso 5y ago
Oops, my bad, I wanted to link to that. I cannot edit it now (maybe someone reading this can?)
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]

digitcatphd 5y ago

His comments primarily address technological advancement, which are not necessarily the same as replacement of or even reliance on centralized systems. Platforms like OpenSea have a network effect and the marginal value of fully decentralized NFT trading or even the technical support (E.g. YouTube tutorials) of Metamask, for instance, does not outweigh the advantage for most users. Moreover, it's in the best interest of these centralized platforms to remain centralized as it creates user stickiness.

arnvald 5y ago
> Platforms like OpenSea have a network effect Exactly. Sellers will go wherever they can find the highest bidders. Buyers will go wherever they can find the best products. Eventually 1-2 winners + a few niche players will emerge and 99.9% of users will forget it was supposed to be decentralized

otterley 5y ago

“Moxie is right, but if we just replace what exists today with this totally different thing — an outcome which is by no means certain - we will have addressed his concerns.” You have to admire his optimism, even if it’s mixed with a whole lot of naïveté.

boxmonster 5y ago
He doesn't realize it but he's building a specialty product that can by used by places like art auction houses to prove provenance. They wil wait for him. The broader market wont. It doesn't care about that. They just want to collect and trade their digital "baseball cards".
noman-land 5y ago
3, 4, 5, and 6 don't seem _that_ hard such that they're impossible. It's not the tech's fault that the media hype and confused FOMO mania are playing out before it's ready.
- jazzyjackson 5y ago
  Timing is central to Moxie’s argument - the market demanded something the protocol didn’t offer, so intermediaries filled the gap (and made bank). Once ETH2 is ready to fulfill these needs, the market will expect something more. From my reading, Moxie isn’t saying “ETH isn’t ready”, he’s saying “platforms move faster when they don’t have to wait for the protocol to make upgrades”
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
coldtea 5y ago
Though it's not naivete if you profit out of something...

zeroimpl 5y ago

In case you missed the discussion on Moxie’s comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29845208 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29845208