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Pretty epic feat of engineering! If this technology spreads I wonder what will happen in countries like Germany where car manufacturing employs a huge swath of

Pretty epic feat of engineering! If this technology spreads I wonder what will happen in countries like Germany where car manufacturing employs a huge swath of the population. Already with electric cars we have way fewer moving parts, now also the assembly line can be drastically reduced. I am curious to see what will happen in such places.

therouwboat 5y ago
Instead of controlling welding robots, they control stamping machines?
01100011 5y ago
German mfgs are already investing heavily in automation.
toephu2 5y ago
What percentage of Germany's population actually work in car manufacturing? A quick google search reveals 300k.. and Germany has has a population of 83 million. For example, BMW production exists in five different countries. You can find BMW manufacturing facilities in Germany, Mexico, China, South Africa, and America. The Spartanburg plant in Greer, South Carolina is the largest BMW production facility they have (by production volume).
- foepys 5y ago
  It's way more than 300,000. Maybe people physically touching cars and car parts but there are thousands of small companies making very small parts like lighting, the handle for seat adjustments, the foam that goes into the seat, small plastic parts, and many more. Numbers I could find in a study made by the research group of the German parliament [1] were 800,000 and those are only people directly employed by manufacturers and their suppliers. 1: https://www.bundestag.de/resource/blob/496346/1a9b4fbe228b43b15bc6fbf3de0cb195/wd-5-122-16-pdf-data.pdf https://www.bundestag.de/resource/blob/496346/1a9b4fbe228b43... (German)
rootusrootus 5y ago
IIRC the legacy automakers are already heavily invested in automation. I would not be surprised if Tesla's production lines are in fact a good bit less automated than, say, BMW's.
- fma 5y ago
  From quality reviews I have heard that TSLA has more deviation in things such as gaps in panels which are unheard w/ traditional automakers...so I'd assume less automation would result in things like this.
  - jiggawatts 5y ago
    It's not just hearsay. I've driven a Tesla and seen a bunch of used ones up for sale. The gaps are hilariously huge on one side, and too small to allow a finger nail in on the other side. Each car varies in their gap consistency, with some "good ones" and some lemons. This inconsistency alone should be a cause for concern.
jaarse 5y ago
I spent 20+ years working as an automation consultant in automotive manufacturing. All the technology that Tesla has available to them, is being used by the other manufacturers as well. Tesla sometimes is less cautious on when they deploy that technology but that’s about it. From a manufacturing standpoint, this will only impact stamping/casting and BIW (body in white) operations. Both are highly automated already with very few people (think the robotic lines you would see in a movie). Casting just takes work about from the stamping press and welding/riveting robots. As a last point, from the plants I’ve been in (including Tesla), Tesla is actuality LESS automated than their counterparts in a lot of areas, because they are willing to “throw labor” at a problem at the expense of cost and quality in order to get parts made. You can do things way less efficient when the stock markets doesn’t care about your bottom line profits.
- davnn 5y ago
  I‘ve often heard that Tesla had to built much of their automation machinery themselves because there were no suppliers that could build „the machine that builds the machine“. This seems contradictory to your statement, do you think there is no truth to this kind of stories? Edit: I’m also wondering why Tesla is supposedly able to produce a car in 10 hours vs. about 30 ours for the traditional manufacturers? E.g. https://www.torquenews.com/14335/elon-musk-manufacturing-will-be-teslas-long-term-competitive-strength/amp https://www.torquenews.com/14335/elon-musk-manufacturing-wil...
  - jaarse 5y ago
    The only thing different between Tesla’s and GM/Toyota/Volkswagens manufacturing processes is the marketing. They all use the same equipment. Most manufacturing lines (robots, presses, equipment) etc are built by dedicated machine builders (not unlike ASML for chip fabs). This is a very mature industry. GM, Volkswagen, Toyota, etc, would build 8M vehicles a year, across dozens of products lines, and refresh their vehicles ever 3-4 years. Tesla just approached 1M last year. Tesla is not a major customer in this space yet, so in some cases they just bought a small machine builder to make there lines for them. (Although granted equipment manufacturers do love to list’s them as a customer for the “cool” factor). An electric car is way simpler to manufacture. Think of how many moving parts are in an engine and transmission alone. So many in fact that engine plants and transmission plants are there own separate 3M+ sq ft facilities. I would think the decreased manufacturing time would come down to this, because from what I have seen Tesla plants run way less efficient than any of the established auto manufacturers.

therouwboat 5y ago

Instead of controlling welding robots, they control stamping machines?

01100011 5y ago

German mfgs are already investing heavily in automation.

toephu2 5y ago

What percentage of Germany's population actually work in car manufacturing? A quick google search reveals 300k.. and Germany has has a population of 83 million. For example, BMW production exists in five different countries. You can find BMW manufacturing facilities in Germany, Mexico, China, South Africa, and America. The Spartanburg plant in Greer, South Carolina is the largest BMW production facility they have (by production volume).

foepys 5y ago
It's way more than 300,000. Maybe people physically touching cars and car parts but there are thousands of small companies making very small parts like lighting, the handle for seat adjustments, the foam that goes into the seat, small plastic parts, and many more. Numbers I could find in a study made by the research group of the German parliament [1] were 800,000 and those are only people directly employed by manufacturers and their suppliers. 1: https://www.bundestag.de/resource/blob/496346/1a9b4fbe228b43b15bc6fbf3de0cb195/wd-5-122-16-pdf-data.pdf https://www.bundestag.de/resource/blob/496346/1a9b4fbe228b43... (German)

rootusrootus 5y ago

IIRC the legacy automakers are already heavily invested in automation. I would not be surprised if Tesla's production lines are in fact a good bit less automated than, say, BMW's.

fma 5y ago
From quality reviews I have heard that TSLA has more deviation in things such as gaps in panels which are unheard w/ traditional automakers...so I'd assume less automation would result in things like this.
- jiggawatts 5y ago
  It's not just hearsay. I've driven a Tesla and seen a bunch of used ones up for sale. The gaps are hilariously huge on one side, and too small to allow a finger nail in on the other side. Each car varies in their gap consistency, with some "good ones" and some lemons. This inconsistency alone should be a cause for concern.

jaarse 5y ago

I spent 20+ years working as an automation consultant in automotive manufacturing. All the technology that Tesla has available to them, is being used by the other manufacturers as well. Tesla sometimes is less cautious on when they deploy that technology but that’s about it. From a manufacturing standpoint, this will only impact stamping/casting and BIW (body in white) operations. Both are highly automated already with very few people (think the robotic lines you would see in a movie). Casting just takes work about from the stamping press and welding/riveting robots. As a last point, from the plants I’ve been in (including Tesla), Tesla is actuality LESS automated than their counterparts in a lot of areas, because they are willing to “throw labor” at a problem at the expense of cost and quality in order to get parts made. You can do things way less efficient when the stock markets doesn’t care about your bottom line profits.

davnn 5y ago
I‘ve often heard that Tesla had to built much of their automation machinery themselves because there were no suppliers that could build „the machine that builds the machine“. This seems contradictory to your statement, do you think there is no truth to this kind of stories? Edit: I’m also wondering why Tesla is supposedly able to produce a car in 10 hours vs. about 30 ours for the traditional manufacturers? E.g. https://www.torquenews.com/14335/elon-musk-manufacturing-will-be-teslas-long-term-competitive-strength/amp https://www.torquenews.com/14335/elon-musk-manufacturing-wil...
- jaarse 5y ago
  The only thing different between Tesla’s and GM/Toyota/Volkswagens manufacturing processes is the marketing. They all use the same equipment. Most manufacturing lines (robots, presses, equipment) etc are built by dedicated machine builders (not unlike ASML for chip fabs). This is a very mature industry. GM, Volkswagen, Toyota, etc, would build 8M vehicles a year, across dozens of products lines, and refresh their vehicles ever 3-4 years. Tesla just approached 1M last year. Tesla is not a major customer in this space yet, so in some cases they just bought a small machine builder to make there lines for them. (Although granted equipment manufacturers do love to list’s them as a customer for the “cool” factor). An electric car is way simpler to manufacture. Think of how many moving parts are in an engine and transmission alone. So many in fact that engine plants and transmission plants are there own separate 3M+ sq ft facilities. I would think the decreased manufacturing time would come down to this, because from what I have seen Tesla plants run way less efficient than any of the established auto manufacturers.