5 ms·

What kind of stupidly is this? Did Apple hire the guy in charge of Windows 10 user accounts?

by zibzab 5y ago

emerongi 5y ago
It could be the other way around: Microsoft hired the Apple guy and let them run wild.
- GeekyBear 5y ago
  To my knowledge, Apple has never tried to force a user to use it's cloud services. You just skip any step referencing a cloud account during setup. This is not true of Microsoft. >Windows 10 users are annoyed that Microsoft has hidden the local account option when setting up a new PC or reinstalling Windows 10. A user on a popular Reddit thread notes that the local account option is now invisible if the device is connected to the internet. https://www.zdnet.com/article/windows-10-users-fume-microsoft-wheres-our-local-account-option-gone/ https://www.zdnet.com/article/windows-10-users-fume-microsof...
  - inetknght 5y ago
    > Apple has never tried to force a user to use it's cloud services. I would argue that making the use of cloud services be the default forces users who aren't aware that it's optional and especially when they don't know that there *are* real downsides to using it.
    - GeekyBear 5y ago
      There is a huge difference between offering the option of a local account or a cloud account as Apple does, and removing the option of a local account altogether, as Microsoft has done. The button to skip that step in Apple's setup wizard is even labeled "Set this up later" to make it clear that the user isn't giving up the ability to use a cloud account later by skipping the step during the setup wizard.
      - inetknght 5y ago
        > The button to skip that step in Apple's setup wizard is even labeled "Set this up later" to make it clear that the user isn't giving up the ability to use a cloud account later by skipping the step during the setup wizard. No, but on the other hand there are plenty of services where "later" means "nag me" and "stop functioning after a certain amount of time" It would be better and clearer if Apple simply and clearly stated "iCloud account is optional and not required to use your Mac"
        GeekyBear 5y ago
        >on the other hand there are plenty of services where "later" means "nag me" and "stop functioning after a certain amount of time" Offering an easily skippable option during setup is not the same thing as the intentional dark patterns common on other platforms. >In this report, we analyze a sample of settings in Facebook, Google and Windows 10, and show how default settings and dark patterns, techniques and features of interface design meant to manipulate users, are used to nudge users towards privacy intrusive options. The findings include privacy intrusive default settings, misleading wording, giving users an illusion of control, hiding away privacy-friendly choices, take-it-or-leave-it choices, and choice architectures where choosing the privacy friendly option requires more effort for the users. https://www.forbrukerradet.no/undersokelse/no-undersokelsekategori/deceived-by-design https://www.forbrukerradet.no/undersokelse/no-undersokelseka...
  - cloudwizard 5y ago
    I hate the fact that Apple kept asking me to accept the terms of service for Itunes. I have no intention of using Itunes. I would remove Itunes and many other Apple Crapware from my computer if I could.
    - simonh 5y ago
      Why did you install iTunes in the first place? It’s an optional download and doesn’t come pre-installed. To remove iTunes, drag it’s icon in the Applications folder to the recycling bin.
      - glandium 5y ago
        AFAIR, it's not an optional download. You can remove it, but it comes pre-installed. I even wouldn't be surprised if it comes back after upgrades.
      - GekkePrutser 5y ago
        In fact iTunes no longer exists in the last two macOS releases. It was split into the videos and music apps and the iOS recovery stuff was moved to finder. iTunes now only exists on Windows. The iTunes store still exists though. Which is probably what the agreement stuff was for.
    - PascLeRasc 5y ago
      I haven’t tried it but I’d be surprised if you couldn’t delete any stock application. I’d try doing it through terminal and then as sudo or without SIP if that didn’t work. But this post describes a straightforward way: https://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/47253/can-i-safely-uninstall-itunes-from-my-mac https://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/47253/can-i-safely...
    - sneak 5y ago
      Install Little Snitch, and disable the built in allow rules for all of the Apple and iCloud stuff. Each time an Apple process tries to connect, make a rule that says that app is never allowed to connect to any server, and set the rule lifetime to "forever". There are about 20-30 Apple processes in macOS that phone home even if you don't use iCloud, iMessage, or FaceTime, or the App Store. Once you block all of them your computer will be quiet on the network.
- matheusmoreira 5y ago
  It could also be that cloud accounts on local computers are a bad idea and implementations will be bad no matter who does it.
  - lupire 5y ago
    Chromebook seems to work without constantly locking people out.

What kind of stupidly is this? Did Apple hire the guy in charge of Windows 10 user accounts?

by zibzab 5y ago

What kind of stupidly is this? Did Apple hire the guy in charge of Windows 10 user accounts?

emerongi 5y ago

It could be the other way around: Microsoft hired the Apple guy and let them run wild.

GeekyBear 5y ago
To my knowledge, Apple has never tried to force a user to use it's cloud services. You just skip any step referencing a cloud account during setup. This is not true of Microsoft. >Windows 10 users are annoyed that Microsoft has hidden the local account option when setting up a new PC or reinstalling Windows 10. A user on a popular Reddit thread notes that the local account option is now invisible if the device is connected to the internet. https://www.zdnet.com/article/windows-10-users-fume-microsoft-wheres-our-local-account-option-gone/ https://www.zdnet.com/article/windows-10-users-fume-microsof...
- inetknght 5y ago
  > Apple has never tried to force a user to use it's cloud services. I would argue that making the use of cloud services be the default forces users who aren't aware that it's optional and especially when they don't know that there *are* real downsides to using it.
  - GeekyBear 5y ago
    There is a huge difference between offering the option of a local account or a cloud account as Apple does, and removing the option of a local account altogether, as Microsoft has done. The button to skip that step in Apple's setup wizard is even labeled "Set this up later" to make it clear that the user isn't giving up the ability to use a cloud account later by skipping the step during the setup wizard.
    - inetknght 5y ago
      > The button to skip that step in Apple's setup wizard is even labeled "Set this up later" to make it clear that the user isn't giving up the ability to use a cloud account later by skipping the step during the setup wizard. No, but on the other hand there are plenty of services where "later" means "nag me" and "stop functioning after a certain amount of time" It would be better and clearer if Apple simply and clearly stated "iCloud account is optional and not required to use your Mac"
      - GeekyBear 5y ago
        >on the other hand there are plenty of services where "later" means "nag me" and "stop functioning after a certain amount of time" Offering an easily skippable option during setup is not the same thing as the intentional dark patterns common on other platforms. >In this report, we analyze a sample of settings in Facebook, Google and Windows 10, and show how default settings and dark patterns, techniques and features of interface design meant to manipulate users, are used to nudge users towards privacy intrusive options. The findings include privacy intrusive default settings, misleading wording, giving users an illusion of control, hiding away privacy-friendly choices, take-it-or-leave-it choices, and choice architectures where choosing the privacy friendly option requires more effort for the users. https://www.forbrukerradet.no/undersokelse/no-undersokelsekategori/deceived-by-design https://www.forbrukerradet.no/undersokelse/no-undersokelseka...
- cloudwizard 5y ago
  I hate the fact that Apple kept asking me to accept the terms of service for Itunes. I have no intention of using Itunes. I would remove Itunes and many other Apple Crapware from my computer if I could.
  - simonh 5y ago
    Why did you install iTunes in the first place? It’s an optional download and doesn’t come pre-installed. To remove iTunes, drag it’s icon in the Applications folder to the recycling bin.
    - glandium 5y ago
      AFAIR, it's not an optional download. You can remove it, but it comes pre-installed. I even wouldn't be surprised if it comes back after upgrades.
    - GekkePrutser 5y ago
      In fact iTunes no longer exists in the last two macOS releases. It was split into the videos and music apps and the iOS recovery stuff was moved to finder. iTunes now only exists on Windows. The iTunes store still exists though. Which is probably what the agreement stuff was for.
  - PascLeRasc 5y ago
    I haven’t tried it but I’d be surprised if you couldn’t delete any stock application. I’d try doing it through terminal and then as sudo or without SIP if that didn’t work. But this post describes a straightforward way: https://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/47253/can-i-safely-uninstall-itunes-from-my-mac https://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/47253/can-i-safely...
  - sneak 5y ago
    Install Little Snitch, and disable the built in allow rules for all of the Apple and iCloud stuff. Each time an Apple process tries to connect, make a rule that says that app is never allowed to connect to any server, and set the rule lifetime to "forever". There are about 20-30 Apple processes in macOS that phone home even if you don't use iCloud, iMessage, or FaceTime, or the App Store. Once you block all of them your computer will be quiet on the network.
matheusmoreira 5y ago
It could also be that cloud accounts on local computers are a bad idea and implementations will be bad no matter who does it.
- lupire 5y ago
  Chromebook seems to work without constantly locking people out.