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But where has this led to actual savings for ratepayers?

ZeroGravitas 5y ago
Everywhere? Even if you only look at energy prices it's probably fairly clear trend, once you start accounting for pollution, climate change, lower peak loads etc. The savings quickly run into Trillions.
- xyzzyz 5y ago
  If it’s everywhere, can you name one country where retail electricity rates went down as share of renewable electricity in the grid went up?
  - Retric 5y ago
    Norway and Iceland come to mind. However, they obviously don’t use much solar power due to location. In terms of recent technology, Iowa is probably the clearest US example. More generally you need to look at wholesale prices and more specifically inflation adjusted wholesale prices to see large drops from the recent solar price drops.
  - bryanlarsen 5y ago
    Texas. Many of them think they're a separate country. :)
  - ZeroGravitas 5y ago
    How about the US? https://www.bls.gov/opub/btn/volume-10/mobile/trends-in-electricity-prices-during-the-transition-away-from-coal.htm https://www.bls.gov/opub/btn/volume-10/mobile/trends-in-elec... Of particular note is the graph showing prices in areas heavily reliant on coal, vs those with a high renewable usage. Conclusion: > Regions with higher use of natural gas and renewable fuel for electric power generation, in particular hydroelectric power, have seen prices rise more slowly than prices in regions that have predominantly used coal. Although it is not possible to attribute the differences in the retail price development solely to fuel mix, the significant role that capacity investment and fuel costs play in determining distribution rates suggests that at least part of the variation between these regions is explained by capacity shifts in the industry.
    - deepnotderp 5y ago
      That is a massively misleading way to frame it. Hydro is well known as one of the cheapest sources of energy period. The problem being if you happen to have a river of energy. Bundling hydro (and natural gas!) into “renewables” to claim that all renewables lower grid prices (when most people take it to mean solar and wind are impractical) is misleading.
      - ZeroGravitas 5y ago
        They have graphs for both renewables with hydro and renewables without hydro, the effect is there for both. They also have a separate gas graph too. But, hydro and gas pairing really well with solar and wind is an actual thing that helps lower energy costs so I don't see why that should be totally ignored.

Everywhere? Even if you only look at energy prices it's probably fairly clear trend, once you start accounting for pollution, climate change, lower peak loads etc. The savings quickly run into Trillions.

xyzzyz 5y ago
If it’s everywhere, can you name one country where retail electricity rates went down as share of renewable electricity in the grid went up?
- Retric 5y ago
  Norway and Iceland come to mind. However, they obviously don’t use much solar power due to location. In terms of recent technology, Iowa is probably the clearest US example. More generally you need to look at wholesale prices and more specifically inflation adjusted wholesale prices to see large drops from the recent solar price drops.
- bryanlarsen 5y ago
  Texas. Many of them think they're a separate country. :)
- ZeroGravitas 5y ago
  How about the US? https://www.bls.gov/opub/btn/volume-10/mobile/trends-in-electricity-prices-during-the-transition-away-from-coal.htm https://www.bls.gov/opub/btn/volume-10/mobile/trends-in-elec... Of particular note is the graph showing prices in areas heavily reliant on coal, vs those with a high renewable usage. Conclusion: > Regions with higher use of natural gas and renewable fuel for electric power generation, in particular hydroelectric power, have seen prices rise more slowly than prices in regions that have predominantly used coal. Although it is not possible to attribute the differences in the retail price development solely to fuel mix, the significant role that capacity investment and fuel costs play in determining distribution rates suggests that at least part of the variation between these regions is explained by capacity shifts in the industry.
  - deepnotderp 5y ago
    That is a massively misleading way to frame it. Hydro is well known as one of the cheapest sources of energy period. The problem being if you happen to have a river of energy. Bundling hydro (and natural gas!) into “renewables” to claim that all renewables lower grid prices (when most people take it to mean solar and wind are impractical) is misleading.
    - ZeroGravitas 5y ago
      They have graphs for both renewables with hydro and renewables without hydro, the effect is there for both. They also have a separate gas graph too. But, hydro and gas pairing really well with solar and wind is an actual thing that helps lower energy costs so I don't see why that should be totally ignored.