5 ms·

it really sounds to me that car companies want a subscription model. Where I will never be able to own a car but I rent one for the rest of my life.

est31 5y ago
Yeah this is what the great reset is about. It has advantages and disadvantages. Advantage is less incentives to produce short lived products. Disadvantage is that individuals have way less control over things.
jsodw 5y ago
“You will own nothing and you will be happy.”
ghaff 5y ago
If we ever get to actual autonomous driving, that seems inevitable. A manufacturer can't be expected to own liability unless they also own maintenance and upgrades.
- SV_BubbleTime 5y ago
  Don’t worry, they’ll find a way to make it subscription based. But also, making the mfg own liability for self-driving is a really interesting topic that will change automotive. As an automotive EE, I’m much more skeptical about autonomous than almost every other person here, but I look forward to being driven to work just the same.
  - ghaff 5y ago
    Oh, I'm as skeptical as anyone--at least outside of certain defined conditions like interstates in good weather. But I don't see how manufacturers can't own liability (or something like the vaccine pool). If you sell me a car that's billed/approved as fully autonomous (fully, not in the Tesla FSD sense), it sure as hell isn't on me if it kills someone.
    - SV_BubbleTime 5y ago
      > certain defined conditions like interstates in good weather. That’s where it is for me. I’ve been around the world and driven in all conditions. I don’t buy blinding whiteout snow, other drivers (Michigan esp)… without vehicle to infrastructure and to vehicle, I don’t buy it. I think the solution to both our topics is it’ll be “mostly self driving”, maybe that only helps a little for liability.
sxg 5y ago
That sounds great, and I can’t wait! Car ownership is a massive pain and time suck for me. Finding and paying for parking, insurance, and maintenance are huge costs in terms of both money and time. Not to mention the fact that my car spends 99% of its life doing absolutely nothing while also representing my single biggest depreciating asset, greatest risk to my health, and substantial cost to the environment. I would gladly offload as much of that as I can to the manufacturer in exchange for a monthly subscription that lets me use a car whenever I need (either rental car or ride-sharing model).
- sofixa 5y ago
  What you're describing sounds an awful lot like public transit.
  - sxg 5y ago
    That’s true, and I do use public transit for about 80% of my travel, which I can only do since I live in a major city. Problem is that I also need to make 1–2 hr trips to the suburbs and out of state every week, and I can’t get away from car ownership for that. Rental cars could fill this gap if they were available more reliably and without having to spend 45 mins in line to get one.
- ghaff 5y ago
  What you're describing sounds like using rental and taxis/"ride shares"/transit for everything which you can do today if your use case/location supports it. Involving a car manufacturer won't change anything fundamental.
- darkstar999 5y ago
  Zipcar. Doesn't work well with a regular commute.
  - sxg 5y ago
    I tried it. Doesn’t work so well in practice since you have to book several days in advance to actually get a car sometimes.
JohnJamesRambo 5y ago
This is painful to read; Alexa how do I get a thought out of my head?
- tonyedgecombe 5y ago
  Don't read this then: https://www.volvocars.com/uk/care-by-volvo/ https://www.volvocars.com/uk/care-by-volvo/
Mordisquitos 5y ago
But surely that business model has already existed for decades. It's called leasing.
- hijinks 5y ago
  but i have a choice to not lease
fomine3 5y ago
Toyota's Kinto (mentioned in OP) is the name for car subscription service in Japan and it have now operated. It covers vehicle price, maintenance fee, inspection fee, insurance, tax, and etc.., as a monthly subscription

est31 5y ago

Yeah this is what the great reset is about. It has advantages and disadvantages. Advantage is less incentives to produce short lived products. Disadvantage is that individuals have way less control over things.

jsodw 5y ago

“You will own nothing and you will be happy.”

ghaff 5y ago

If we ever get to actual autonomous driving, that seems inevitable. A manufacturer can't be expected to own liability unless they also own maintenance and upgrades.

SV_BubbleTime 5y ago
Don’t worry, they’ll find a way to make it subscription based. But also, making the mfg own liability for self-driving is a really interesting topic that will change automotive. As an automotive EE, I’m much more skeptical about autonomous than almost every other person here, but I look forward to being driven to work just the same.
- ghaff 5y ago
  Oh, I'm as skeptical as anyone--at least outside of certain defined conditions like interstates in good weather. But I don't see how manufacturers can't own liability (or something like the vaccine pool). If you sell me a car that's billed/approved as fully autonomous (fully, not in the Tesla FSD sense), it sure as hell isn't on me if it kills someone.
  - SV_BubbleTime 5y ago
    > certain defined conditions like interstates in good weather. That’s where it is for me. I’ve been around the world and driven in all conditions. I don’t buy blinding whiteout snow, other drivers (Michigan esp)… without vehicle to infrastructure and to vehicle, I don’t buy it. I think the solution to both our topics is it’ll be “mostly self driving”, maybe that only helps a little for liability.

sxg 5y ago

That sounds great, and I can’t wait! Car ownership is a massive pain and time suck for me. Finding and paying for parking, insurance, and maintenance are huge costs in terms of both money and time. Not to mention the fact that my car spends 99% of its life doing absolutely nothing while also representing my single biggest depreciating asset, greatest risk to my health, and substantial cost to the environment. I would gladly offload as much of that as I can to the manufacturer in exchange for a monthly subscription that lets me use a car whenever I need (either rental car or ride-sharing model).

sofixa 5y ago
What you're describing sounds an awful lot like public transit.
- sxg 5y ago
  That’s true, and I do use public transit for about 80% of my travel, which I can only do since I live in a major city. Problem is that I also need to make 1–2 hr trips to the suburbs and out of state every week, and I can’t get away from car ownership for that. Rental cars could fill this gap if they were available more reliably and without having to spend 45 mins in line to get one.
ghaff 5y ago
What you're describing sounds like using rental and taxis/"ride shares"/transit for everything which you can do today if your use case/location supports it. Involving a car manufacturer won't change anything fundamental.
darkstar999 5y ago
Zipcar. Doesn't work well with a regular commute.
- sxg 5y ago
  I tried it. Doesn’t work so well in practice since you have to book several days in advance to actually get a car sometimes.

JohnJamesRambo 5y ago

This is painful to read; Alexa how do I get a thought out of my head?

tonyedgecombe 5y ago
Don't read this then: https://www.volvocars.com/uk/care-by-volvo/ https://www.volvocars.com/uk/care-by-volvo/

Mordisquitos 5y ago

But surely that business model has already existed for decades. It's called leasing.

hijinks 5y ago
but i have a choice to not lease

fomine3 5y ago

Toyota's Kinto (mentioned in OP) is the name for car subscription service in Japan and it have now operated. It covers vehicle price, maintenance fee, inspection fee, insurance, tax, and etc.., as a monthly subscription