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> There has been so much talk about how the lifetime of a BEV is much longer than a ICE I haven't seen this talk - I think most cars get scrapped when the chas

> There has been so much talk about how the lifetime of a BEV is much longer than a ICE I haven't seen this talk - I think most cars get scrapped when the chassis rots, or the suspension goes, or the tech’s obsolete - not when the engine dies which is probably the last thing to go. So BEV should be no different?

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
mongol 5y ago
Perhaps it is because many ICE car components degrade with approximately similar pace. If it were just the suspension that would give up, it would be worthwhile to repair if the remainder had many km left in them. But if you know that it is just a matter of time until another expensive repair, then you throw in the towel at the first one, perhaps.
- Spooky23 5y ago
  It’s not an ICE issue. Emissions controls drove reliability. No such thing drives similar changes for other components. I drove a 2003 Honda Pilot 265k miles and get rid of it in 2019. It needed shocks, brakes and would have needed the exhaust system replaced soon due to rust. Just wasn’t worth the money. I sold it to a guy I know for $2000, he drove it until last year, removed the engine and transmission, and sold it.
ansible 5y ago
> ... not when the engine dies which is probably the last thing to go. The engine can be the last thing to go, if you are good about checking and changing your oil. If you let the oil run low, or let it sludge up, or don't promptly detect a cooling system leak [1], that will damage the bearings, and then it is only a matter of time before it dies. [1] Some engines can have the head gasket start to leak, which lets coolant into the combustion chamber (which is bad). Worse are the engine designs that integrate the water pump into the engine block. If the water pump leaks (which they often do, it drips coolant directly into the oil, which is super bad. An external water pump, in contrast, will just leak on the outside of the engine onto the ground. In either case, the coolant will run low, and eventually the engine will overheat. However, in the external pump case, you can just fix the leaky pump, and assuming you didn't try to run it overheated, you're fine. But with an internal water pump, by the time the coolant has run low, you've severely degraded the oil too, and likely damaged the bearings. In addition, replacing the internal pump usually means dropping the entire engine out of the vehicle, which is far more costly. Thus endeth my rant on water pumps.
- skeletal88 5y ago
  My car has 160k km since 2005. The problems are everywhere else except the engine First - it is rusting a lot. Then the car door doesn't close properly when it is colder than -15 or -20. Then the car has decided that the esp is faulty 2 times on longer rides in cold weather and that the max speed should be 20kmh (luckily a restart of the car fixed that)
  - chrisseaton 5y ago
    This is it - a car's structure just rots away at a certain point if it's being used. It's not a mechanical thing you can refurbish or replace - the car as a whole just starts breaking apart.
- RugnirViking 5y ago
  Something that is extremely anecdotal experience for me, especially given I have never owned a car, is that things like "check your oil" are weirdly a feature mainly of american media. To the extent that its sort of led me to believe its something that isn't really necessary, like taking vitamins when your doctor hasn't told you you have a deficiency. I'm only really realising this assumption of mine now, so is this even remotely true? I don't think ive ever heard about people talking about changing their oil here in europe in actual day-to-day life, but I have heard much more about antifreeze or windscreen wiper fluid or even water/coolant.
  - chrisseaton 5y ago
    I looked up the oil change schedule for my car once. Same car and specs available in both the US and the UK (minor compliance issues like colour of indicators beside.) In the UK the manufacturer recommends changing every 20,000 miles or two years, in the US every 5,000 miles or six months. Same car! I have never changed my oil in my car, despite having it over a year, and won't look to do it for another year yet. I think that would give most Americans a heart attack. They've got an entire industry over there changing oil 4x more frequently than actually required. Absolutely bizarre.
Gravityloss 5y ago
Toyota is famous for extreme durability in functional parts like engine or electronics. But also infamous, how the chassis rots away very fast. Don't know what is the current status. Audi started dipping the bodies in zinc since 1987. So technologies exist.
- gandalfian 5y ago
  'Don't know what is the current status. Audi started dipping the bodies in zinc since 1987." Fancy way to say galvanised?
  - chrisseaton 5y ago
    Maybe galvanisation is a fancy way to say dipping in zinc?
    - singlow 5y ago
      Except galvanized is a common household term for a century but dipped in zinc sound exotic unless you realize the similarity.
    - Johnythree 5y ago
      There's a big difference between building the chassis out of galvanised parts, and dipping the completed chassis in a bath of molten zinc.
- dotancohen 5y ago
  > Toyota is famous for extreme durability in functional parts like engine or electronics. But also infamous, how the chassis rots away very fast. I wouldn't go that far. Toyota pickup chassis built by Dana (the rear end guys) were known to rust some time ago. Other than that, I do not know of any Toyotas that rusted away more than the average car would given any environmental conditions.
toomanybeersies 5y ago
In my (Australian) experience, the three main reasons cars get scrapped are engine failures, transmission problems, and kangaroos. Rust is much less of a problem for anything manufactured this century. Suspension is pretty cheap to fix, it cost me <$2000 to get my entire front suspension replaced a while back.
- burntoutfire 5y ago
  > Rust is much less of a problem for anything manufactured this century. Suspension is pretty cheap to fix, it cost me <$2000 to get my entire front suspension replaced a while back. I'm guessing you don't have below freezing temperatures, and roads sprinkled with salt every winter? That's the real suspension and car chassis killer. I've also heard that it's similar near seas (or oceans), where non negligible amounts of salt from the sea are present as aerosol in the air.
eptcyka 5y ago
Its so easy to kill an engine by just skipping oil changes. What's more, as engines become evermore complex, the amount of failure condition that can total the car grow too.
- chrisseaton 5y ago
  Changing the oil as part of an annual service is already more than enough. Engines don’t break from oil in almost any use-case.
  - Johnythree 5y ago
    One problem is that modern cars have very small amount of oil in them. Which means that if you develop a problem they can run dry very quickly.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

mongol 5y ago

Perhaps it is because many ICE car components degrade with approximately similar pace. If it were just the suspension that would give up, it would be worthwhile to repair if the remainder had many km left in them. But if you know that it is just a matter of time until another expensive repair, then you throw in the towel at the first one, perhaps.

Spooky23 5y ago
It’s not an ICE issue. Emissions controls drove reliability. No such thing drives similar changes for other components. I drove a 2003 Honda Pilot 265k miles and get rid of it in 2019. It needed shocks, brakes and would have needed the exhaust system replaced soon due to rust. Just wasn’t worth the money. I sold it to a guy I know for $2000, he drove it until last year, removed the engine and transmission, and sold it.

ansible 5y ago

> ... not when the engine dies which is probably the last thing to go. The engine can be the last thing to go, if you are good about checking and changing your oil. If you let the oil run low, or let it sludge up, or don't promptly detect a cooling system leak [1], that will damage the bearings, and then it is only a matter of time before it dies. [1] Some engines can have the head gasket start to leak, which lets coolant into the combustion chamber (which is bad). Worse are the engine designs that integrate the water pump into the engine block. If the water pump leaks (which they often do, it drips coolant directly into the oil, which is super bad. An external water pump, in contrast, will just leak on the outside of the engine onto the ground. In either case, the coolant will run low, and eventually the engine will overheat. However, in the external pump case, you can just fix the leaky pump, and assuming you didn't try to run it overheated, you're fine. But with an internal water pump, by the time the coolant has run low, you've severely degraded the oil too, and likely damaged the bearings. In addition, replacing the internal pump usually means dropping the entire engine out of the vehicle, which is far more costly. Thus endeth my rant on water pumps.

skeletal88 5y ago
My car has 160k km since 2005. The problems are everywhere else except the engine First - it is rusting a lot. Then the car door doesn't close properly when it is colder than -15 or -20. Then the car has decided that the esp is faulty 2 times on longer rides in cold weather and that the max speed should be 20kmh (luckily a restart of the car fixed that)
- chrisseaton 5y ago
  This is it - a car's structure just rots away at a certain point if it's being used. It's not a mechanical thing you can refurbish or replace - the car as a whole just starts breaking apart.
RugnirViking 5y ago
Something that is extremely anecdotal experience for me, especially given I have never owned a car, is that things like "check your oil" are weirdly a feature mainly of american media. To the extent that its sort of led me to believe its something that isn't really necessary, like taking vitamins when your doctor hasn't told you you have a deficiency. I'm only really realising this assumption of mine now, so is this even remotely true? I don't think ive ever heard about people talking about changing their oil here in europe in actual day-to-day life, but I have heard much more about antifreeze or windscreen wiper fluid or even water/coolant.
- chrisseaton 5y ago
  I looked up the oil change schedule for my car once. Same car and specs available in both the US and the UK (minor compliance issues like colour of indicators beside.) In the UK the manufacturer recommends changing every 20,000 miles or two years, in the US every 5,000 miles or six months. Same car! I have never changed my oil in my car, despite having it over a year, and won't look to do it for another year yet. I think that would give most Americans a heart attack. They've got an entire industry over there changing oil 4x more frequently than actually required. Absolutely bizarre.

Gravityloss 5y ago

Toyota is famous for extreme durability in functional parts like engine or electronics. But also infamous, how the chassis rots away very fast. Don't know what is the current status. Audi started dipping the bodies in zinc since 1987. So technologies exist.

gandalfian 5y ago
'Don't know what is the current status. Audi started dipping the bodies in zinc since 1987." Fancy way to say galvanised?
- chrisseaton 5y ago
  Maybe galvanisation is a fancy way to say dipping in zinc?
  - singlow 5y ago
    Except galvanized is a common household term for a century but dipped in zinc sound exotic unless you realize the similarity.
  - Johnythree 5y ago
    There's a big difference between building the chassis out of galvanised parts, and dipping the completed chassis in a bath of molten zinc.
dotancohen 5y ago
> Toyota is famous for extreme durability in functional parts like engine or electronics. But also infamous, how the chassis rots away very fast. I wouldn't go that far. Toyota pickup chassis built by Dana (the rear end guys) were known to rust some time ago. Other than that, I do not know of any Toyotas that rusted away more than the average car would given any environmental conditions.

toomanybeersies 5y ago

In my (Australian) experience, the three main reasons cars get scrapped are engine failures, transmission problems, and kangaroos. Rust is much less of a problem for anything manufactured this century. Suspension is pretty cheap to fix, it cost me <$2000 to get my entire front suspension replaced a while back.

burntoutfire 5y ago
> Rust is much less of a problem for anything manufactured this century. Suspension is pretty cheap to fix, it cost me <$2000 to get my entire front suspension replaced a while back. I'm guessing you don't have below freezing temperatures, and roads sprinkled with salt every winter? That's the real suspension and car chassis killer. I've also heard that it's similar near seas (or oceans), where non negligible amounts of salt from the sea are present as aerosol in the air.

eptcyka 5y ago

Its so easy to kill an engine by just skipping oil changes. What's more, as engines become evermore complex, the amount of failure condition that can total the car grow too.

chrisseaton 5y ago
Changing the oil as part of an annual service is already more than enough. Engines don’t break from oil in almost any use-case.
- Johnythree 5y ago
  One problem is that modern cars have very small amount of oil in them. Which means that if you develop a problem they can run dry very quickly.