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We’ve made the vaccine free, and widely available. If there were still people waiting weeks to get a vaccine they want to take then I can see an argument why we

by zaroth 5y ago

We’ve made the vaccine free, and widely available. If there were still people waiting weeks to get a vaccine they want to take then I can see an argument why we should all suffer serious injury (like what’s happening at this school) to try to give people more time. There is no endpoint where SARS-CoV-2 is over. The strains will keep coming and Covid is endemic. My personal experience is that each time you get COVID is more mild than the last, particularly if you are vaccinated, and this is borne out in the numbers. Surprisingly the mutations are enough that getting it repeatedly is totally possible. Even an actual sterilizing vaccine that worked in the nasal passages might not have stopping this. If not now, when? What’s your endpoint for when the extremely damaging and poverty inducing hysteria will stop?

tzs 5y ago
The endpoint is when enough of the people who refuse to get vaccinated have gotten it enough times that their hospitalization rates are as low as those of vaccinated people, so that those of us who are vaccinated can get decent treatment if we get a serious injury or non-COVID illness. Omicron looks like it has a good change to get us to that point.
- native_samples 5y ago
  I hate to break it to you but most people hospitalized with COVID are already vaccinated in many health systems. That's true in the UK for instance. US data is often garbage so it's harder to say there but it's unlikely to be different. Most people are vaccinated + vaccines don't work very well = most COVID hospitalizations are vaccinated.
  - tylerhou 5y ago
    > most COVID hospitalizations are vaccinated. Do you have a source for this? The math doesn’t add up (vaccinated are 10-15x less likely to be hospitalized, and around 60% of US is vaccinated, implies around 6/46 hospitalized people are vaccinated) and all the sources I could find show that unvaccinated people take up most hospitalizations and even more ICU beds, which is the limiting resource. https://www.wndu.com/2022/01/06/covid-19-hospitalizations-rise-vaccinatednon-boosted-patients/ https://www.wndu.com/2022/01/06/covid-19-hospitalizations-ri...
    - native_samples 5y ago
      US data is unfortunately unusable. Hospitals routinely classify anyone they don't have data on as unvaccinated and they don't have data much of the time. Germany pulls the same trick, it was covered in a national newspaper and they didn't change it. Public health is utterly corrupt, you have to work very hard to find data that is slightly less corrupted than normal. In the UK data quality is better than normal for some reason, perhaps due to the nationalized healthcare system making it easier to set consistent standards. And there the majority of COVID patients in hospital are vaccinated according to the ICNARC audits. It's not a big majority but it's there, and this is not confounder/game-playing free data either. They keep classifying people as unvaccinated for quite some time after their first shot for example, which is problematic because there's some evidence people are more likely to get infected immediately after their first dose. But that gets added to the unvaccinated side of the ledger. There are other problems e.g. people have to go to hospital to be hospitalized, but they tell vaccinated people they're protected from hospitalization, then declare victory when those people don't turn up. Given how marginal many cases are (they may or may not really need to be there but you can't know what would have happened in the alternative case), this is a form of circular reasoning. Nonetheless it'd be weird if the USA and Germany were radically different to the UK in this regard.
  - tzs 5y ago
    Vaccines work very well. Vaccinated people have COVID hospitalization rates an order of magnitude lower than do unvaccinated people. In the US we have about 25% of adults unvaccinated, but it varies greatly from region to region. We've got plenty of counties where over 50% of adults are unvaccinated.
  - khazhoux 5y ago
    Every bit of data in the US, from hospital reports to anecdotal stories told by nurses and doctors, tells the exact opposite. Hospitalized and ICU'd COVID patients are unvaccinated.

by zaroth 5y ago

tzs 5y ago

The endpoint is when enough of the people who refuse to get vaccinated have gotten it enough times that their hospitalization rates are as low as those of vaccinated people, so that those of us who are vaccinated can get decent treatment if we get a serious injury or non-COVID illness. Omicron looks like it has a good change to get us to that point.

native_samples 5y ago
I hate to break it to you but most people hospitalized with COVID are already vaccinated in many health systems. That's true in the UK for instance. US data is often garbage so it's harder to say there but it's unlikely to be different. Most people are vaccinated + vaccines don't work very well = most COVID hospitalizations are vaccinated.
- tylerhou 5y ago
  > most COVID hospitalizations are vaccinated. Do you have a source for this? The math doesn’t add up (vaccinated are 10-15x less likely to be hospitalized, and around 60% of US is vaccinated, implies around 6/46 hospitalized people are vaccinated) and all the sources I could find show that unvaccinated people take up most hospitalizations and even more ICU beds, which is the limiting resource. https://www.wndu.com/2022/01/06/covid-19-hospitalizations-rise-vaccinatednon-boosted-patients/ https://www.wndu.com/2022/01/06/covid-19-hospitalizations-ri...
  - native_samples 5y ago
    US data is unfortunately unusable. Hospitals routinely classify anyone they don't have data on as unvaccinated and they don't have data much of the time. Germany pulls the same trick, it was covered in a national newspaper and they didn't change it. Public health is utterly corrupt, you have to work very hard to find data that is slightly less corrupted than normal. In the UK data quality is better than normal for some reason, perhaps due to the nationalized healthcare system making it easier to set consistent standards. And there the majority of COVID patients in hospital are vaccinated according to the ICNARC audits. It's not a big majority but it's there, and this is not confounder/game-playing free data either. They keep classifying people as unvaccinated for quite some time after their first shot for example, which is problematic because there's some evidence people are more likely to get infected immediately after their first dose. But that gets added to the unvaccinated side of the ledger. There are other problems e.g. people have to go to hospital to be hospitalized, but they tell vaccinated people they're protected from hospitalization, then declare victory when those people don't turn up. Given how marginal many cases are (they may or may not really need to be there but you can't know what would have happened in the alternative case), this is a form of circular reasoning. Nonetheless it'd be weird if the USA and Germany were radically different to the UK in this regard.
- tzs 5y ago
  Vaccines work very well. Vaccinated people have COVID hospitalization rates an order of magnitude lower than do unvaccinated people. In the US we have about 25% of adults unvaccinated, but it varies greatly from region to region. We've got plenty of counties where over 50% of adults are unvaccinated.
- khazhoux 5y ago
  Every bit of data in the US, from hospital reports to anecdotal stories told by nurses and doctors, tells the exact opposite. Hospitalized and ICU'd COVID patients are unvaccinated.