5 ms·

In college, I interviewed here as I also went to school in Utah. I will never forget all the red flags as I stepped foot into the building. First was the dress

In college, I interviewed here as I also went to school in Utah. I will never forget all the red flags as I stepped foot into the building. First was the dress code. Everyone was in suits or dresses, even the developers. Some more relaxed, but everyone looked as if they were from Wall Street. I remember being the least dressed person there interviewing with my khakis and red dress shirt (no tie). Every hiring manager except one(I interviewed for 5 teams) gave off a holier than thou vibe. One dude was super chill but everyone else had a stick up you know where. The environments were small open rooms where developers had computers lined next to each other. You would bump elbows with each other. It was very messy and part of me wondered how anything got done being so close to meeting rooms and sales pits with all the noise. Cubicles looked appealing compared to this and that’s saying something. I did not aspire to be a code monkey. The interviews had ridiculous questions like “why is a manhole cover round?” or “why does a tennis ball have felt?”. The joke of an answer I gave to the first was that it’s so the TMNT can throw them like frisbees. That was not well received. I got offers from 3 of the teams ultimately. The pay was really terrible and the hours were long for intern work. I took a job working remotely for a local company instead that paid me 70k/yr while I finished my studies. I’m glad the author had a positive experience and things have changed over the last 10 years.

jelkand 5y ago
I started my career at GS in SLC about six years ago. I remember when the entire technology division ditched the dress-up rules. It felt like a monumental change. I have to wonder if I worked with some of the managers you interviewed with--that sounds like a familiar phenomenon. A few relaxed people, but lots of folks who brought a NYC investment banking attitude with them to SLC.
jasonpeacock 5y ago
When I (male) interviewed for a tech role at Amazon back in 2000, one of my interviewers was a woman in a sundress (it was summer), with large, visible tattoos and a nose piercing. The men were dressed casually, in jeans and t-shirts, but seeing her able to feel comfortable as herself made me excited to join. This was at a time that Starbucks made baristas cover up visible tattoos, and many professional tech roles at large companies still required "business casual" of khakis & polos.
- shadowgovt 5y ago
  Not enough is said about the cultural shift that happened as a result of technology giving economic and social power to the West Coast counter-culture scene.
  - brunellus 5y ago
    Interesting observation. What were the implications?
    - pydry 5y ago
      We exchanged privacy for the right to wear slacks to the office and show our tattoos, it seems.
      - smsm42 5y ago
        Privacy, freedom of speech, cultural diversity, civil public discussion... And now nobody is going to the office anyways. Was it worth it?
  - FabHK 5y ago
    During the first dot com bubble, dress code at Goldman was still (non-casual) business. This lead to the absurd situation that teams on the West Coast came to the office in a suit and tie, would then change into slacks and hoodie to meet with tech bro startup clients, and then change back into the suit at the office. Around 2000 or so GS relaxed the dress code, and, to compete better with tech in hiring, even put a foosball table somewhere in their NY headquarters on 85 Broad Street. Then the dot com bubble burst, and the foosball table was gone rather quickly.
  - ALittleLight 5y ago
    Wasn't Starbucks, the example of a restrictive culture, a West Coast counter-culture kind of company though?
    - 5y ago
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
Silhouette 5y ago
The interviews had ridiculous questions like “why is a manhole cover round?” That was always one of the worst standard brain-teaser questions because so many people who asked it didn't know the correct answer. Hint: If your answer was that a circular cover is the only shape that can't fall down the matching hole, everything you think you know about the world is wrong and the term you're looking for is "curve of constant width". The real answer is because manhole covers are mass produced and manufacturing circular ones is usually easier and cheaper than the alternatives.
- melony 5y ago
  Is it easier and cheaper to manufacture because a circle has no obvious weaknesses? For example most point shapes are weak structurally weak at the corners.
  - samscully 5y ago
    There are infinite shapes that cannot fall down the matching hole, but the circle is the easiest to manufacture. A circular cover is easier to manufacture than e.g. a Reuleaux triangle shaped one.
- Bahamut 5y ago
  > The real answer is because manhole covers are mass produced and manufacturing circular ones is usually easier and cheaper than the alternatives. My understanding is the primary reason is because circular covers cannot fall into the hole itself, whereas that problem exists with other shapes like squares.
  - aaaaaaaaaaab 5y ago
    The parent comment already addressed this. Shapes of constant width (e.g. £1 coin) won’t fall into the hole either. Neither would an equilateral triangle. Oh, and by the way in my country we have square-shaped manhole covers too :O
    - 5y ago
narag 5y ago
I interviewed for a position in a bank central. Everybody with shirt and tie, but the bad thing is that it was an open plan with more than a hundred screaming programmers. Why was everybody so loud I can't understand. The idiot that I had the displeasure to talk to was proud of the hellish environment, hero culture and seemed to think that they had some kind of bleeding edge tech there. I needed just a couple of questions to realize that it was crap. The recruiter had driven me there. He asked if I thought I passed. "I surely hope I didn't!!"
JohnBooty 5y ago
The environments were small open rooms where developers had computers lined next to each other. You would bump elbows with each other. I always struggled to work in environments like that but always blamed it on ADHD etc. But, there's a lot of evidence that increased CO2 levels have negative effects on cognition, so maybe it wasn't just me. “why does a tennis ball have felt?” I know the correct answer(s) because I'm a tennis player but this feels like a really weird interview question. I understand the (highly dubious) point of these brain teasers - it's less about getting the "correct" answer and more about observing the candidate's thought process. But this one feels worse than most because I'm not sure how you could reason about it unless you're already pretty familiar with tennis. I do like open-ended, "I just want to learn more about the interviewee's thought process" questions in general; I just prefer them to be a little more relevant. Such as, - how would you troubleshoot particular problem XYZ? - how would you design the database schema given the following set of requirements? - what's a controversial/unpopular software development opinion you have? - what's the best project you ever worked on, and why? - what's one thing you'd change about $TECHNOLOGY_RELEVANT_TO_THE_ROLE_THEYRE_APPLYING_FOR ? - etc.
- noah_buddy 5y ago
  I've never played tennis in my life but I have a general idea how it works from pop culture so let's see if I can reason it out. The reason must have to do with either judging or playing the game (otherwise, why bother?). I'm no physicist or aeronautics engineer but I presume the fuzz is relatively negligible on ball speed over short distances, so it's probably not related to how the ball flies. It also doesn't seem realistic that it interacts with the racket or the court. One not so serious thought is perhaps it's got to do with net dynamics but that seems like an edge case I professional play. I haven't really watched tennis but I imagine most volleys end in balls bouncing out of bounds or a player not being able to return a hit. A little excessive to add fuzz for that. I also considered that maybe it's a means of having something adhere to the ball (like if it bounces on the line) but they have high speed cameras and line judges for those sorts of things. Guessing it's not that. If it doesn't affect the dynamics of the ball or the adjucation of a play, it seems to me that it's instead a more general indicator. You touch the fuzzy ball before every serve and feel the fuzziness. You have a finger sense for a good ball and worn one. If the ball is fuzzy enough, it's good enough. Therefore, it seems to me it's a quality indicator for players to know when to switch out. And I looked it up, it turns out I'm quite bad at physics! Won't spoil it any further for others trying to guess.
P_I_Staker 5y ago
> One dude was super chill but everyone else had a stick up you know where. The ass?
listenallyall 5y ago
Just a detail, but there is no such thing as a "red dress shirt." You might have a red button-down shirt, but that would definitely not be considered a "dress shirt" nor would it be appropriate for a workplace where people where suits and ties. Not even "business casual." Such a shirt would only be ok if it's the kind of place where jeans are ok.

jelkand 5y ago

I started my career at GS in SLC about six years ago. I remember when the entire technology division ditched the dress-up rules. It felt like a monumental change. I have to wonder if I worked with some of the managers you interviewed with--that sounds like a familiar phenomenon. A few relaxed people, but lots of folks who brought a NYC investment banking attitude with them to SLC.

jasonpeacock 5y ago

When I (male) interviewed for a tech role at Amazon back in 2000, one of my interviewers was a woman in a sundress (it was summer), with large, visible tattoos and a nose piercing. The men were dressed casually, in jeans and t-shirts, but seeing her able to feel comfortable as herself made me excited to join. This was at a time that Starbucks made baristas cover up visible tattoos, and many professional tech roles at large companies still required "business casual" of khakis & polos.

shadowgovt 5y ago
Not enough is said about the cultural shift that happened as a result of technology giving economic and social power to the West Coast counter-culture scene.
- brunellus 5y ago
  Interesting observation. What were the implications?
  - pydry 5y ago
    We exchanged privacy for the right to wear slacks to the office and show our tattoos, it seems.
    - smsm42 5y ago
      Privacy, freedom of speech, cultural diversity, civil public discussion... And now nobody is going to the office anyways. Was it worth it?
- FabHK 5y ago
  During the first dot com bubble, dress code at Goldman was still (non-casual) business. This lead to the absurd situation that teams on the West Coast came to the office in a suit and tie, would then change into slacks and hoodie to meet with tech bro startup clients, and then change back into the suit at the office. Around 2000 or so GS relaxed the dress code, and, to compete better with tech in hiring, even put a foosball table somewhere in their NY headquarters on 85 Broad Street. Then the dot com bubble burst, and the foosball table was gone rather quickly.
- ALittleLight 5y ago
  Wasn't Starbucks, the example of a restrictive culture, a West Coast counter-culture kind of company though?
  - 5y ago

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

Silhouette 5y ago

The interviews had ridiculous questions like “why is a manhole cover round?” That was always one of the worst standard brain-teaser questions because so many people who asked it didn't know the correct answer. Hint: If your answer was that a circular cover is the only shape that can't fall down the matching hole, everything you think you know about the world is wrong and the term you're looking for is "curve of constant width". The real answer is because manhole covers are mass produced and manufacturing circular ones is usually easier and cheaper than the alternatives.

melony 5y ago
Is it easier and cheaper to manufacture because a circle has no obvious weaknesses? For example most point shapes are weak structurally weak at the corners.
- samscully 5y ago
  There are infinite shapes that cannot fall down the matching hole, but the circle is the easiest to manufacture. A circular cover is easier to manufacture than e.g. a Reuleaux triangle shaped one.
Bahamut 5y ago
> The real answer is because manhole covers are mass produced and manufacturing circular ones is usually easier and cheaper than the alternatives. My understanding is the primary reason is because circular covers cannot fall into the hole itself, whereas that problem exists with other shapes like squares.
- aaaaaaaaaaab 5y ago
  The parent comment already addressed this. Shapes of constant width (e.g. £1 coin) won’t fall into the hole either. Neither would an equilateral triangle. Oh, and by the way in my country we have square-shaped manhole covers too :O
  - 5y ago

narag 5y ago

I interviewed for a position in a bank central. Everybody with shirt and tie, but the bad thing is that it was an open plan with more than a hundred screaming programmers. Why was everybody so loud I can't understand. The idiot that I had the displeasure to talk to was proud of the hellish environment, hero culture and seemed to think that they had some kind of bleeding edge tech there. I needed just a couple of questions to realize that it was crap. The recruiter had driven me there. He asked if I thought I passed. "I surely hope I didn't!!"

JohnBooty 5y ago

The environments were small open rooms where developers had computers lined next to each other. You would bump elbows with each other. I always struggled to work in environments like that but always blamed it on ADHD etc. But, there's a lot of evidence that increased CO2 levels have negative effects on cognition, so maybe it wasn't just me. “why does a tennis ball have felt?” I know the correct answer(s) because I'm a tennis player but this feels like a really weird interview question. I understand the (highly dubious) point of these brain teasers - it's less about getting the "correct" answer and more about observing the candidate's thought process. But this one feels worse than most because I'm not sure how you could reason about it unless you're already pretty familiar with tennis. I do like open-ended, "I just want to learn more about the interviewee's thought process" questions in general; I just prefer them to be a little more relevant. Such as, - how would you troubleshoot particular problem XYZ? - how would you design the database schema given the following set of requirements? - what's a controversial/unpopular software development opinion you have? - what's the best project you ever worked on, and why? - what's one thing you'd change about $TECHNOLOGY_RELEVANT_TO_THE_ROLE_THEYRE_APPLYING_FOR ? - etc.

noah_buddy 5y ago
I've never played tennis in my life but I have a general idea how it works from pop culture so let's see if I can reason it out. The reason must have to do with either judging or playing the game (otherwise, why bother?). I'm no physicist or aeronautics engineer but I presume the fuzz is relatively negligible on ball speed over short distances, so it's probably not related to how the ball flies. It also doesn't seem realistic that it interacts with the racket or the court. One not so serious thought is perhaps it's got to do with net dynamics but that seems like an edge case I professional play. I haven't really watched tennis but I imagine most volleys end in balls bouncing out of bounds or a player not being able to return a hit. A little excessive to add fuzz for that. I also considered that maybe it's a means of having something adhere to the ball (like if it bounces on the line) but they have high speed cameras and line judges for those sorts of things. Guessing it's not that. If it doesn't affect the dynamics of the ball or the adjucation of a play, it seems to me that it's instead a more general indicator. You touch the fuzzy ball before every serve and feel the fuzziness. You have a finger sense for a good ball and worn one. If the ball is fuzzy enough, it's good enough. Therefore, it seems to me it's a quality indicator for players to know when to switch out. And I looked it up, it turns out I'm quite bad at physics! Won't spoil it any further for others trying to guess.

P_I_Staker 5y ago

> One dude was super chill but everyone else had a stick up you know where. The ass?

listenallyall 5y ago

Just a detail, but there is no such thing as a "red dress shirt." You might have a red button-down shirt, but that would definitely not be considered a "dress shirt" nor would it be appropriate for a workplace where people where suits and ties. Not even "business casual." Such a shirt would only be ok if it's the kind of place where jeans are ok.