3 ms·

A lot of RFID door openers also just use mechanical relays to power the locking mechanism, which can be triggered from outside with a strong magnet. In the end

by meibo 5y ago

A lot of RFID door openers also just use mechanical relays to power the locking mechanism, which can be triggered from outside with a strong magnet. In the end it probably depends on what your threat model is. To keep out thieves, most of them are probably unsuited.

Nextgrid 5y ago
The cheap, self-contained ones yes. But I’m talking about “proper” ones where the reader and controller are separate. While it indeed depends on the threat model, the problem is that a lot of these electronic systems are sold at a high price to building management companies while being horribly insecure. At least if they were cheap then fair enough - you get what you pay for - but that isn't the case here; they provide a false sense of security.
- Spooky23 5y ago
  The building management companies were fine with commercial keys in the 80s. They are paying for a system to map entitlement to lock. The quality of the lock is a small part of the overall equation. I’ll give you an example of my home. The previously homeowner installed a high quality Medeco lock. It’s difficult to pick (unless you are YouTube’s lockpickinglawyee) and the keys are a pain to duplicate. Secure, right? Not really. My front door is on a porch with a window, and you could trivially use a thin metal bar to pop the window open, assuming that you wanted to keep the noise down.
  - Nextgrid 5y ago
    It's actually secure in the sense that the lock is difficult to pick and breaking the window leaves evidence of the break-in. In contrast, exploiting these electronic locks leaves no evidence - the same would apply to easily pickable mechanical locks of course, but at least the shitty mechanical ones are cheap.
    - BenjiWiebe 5y ago
      Though if he's referring to "picking" the window's latch, then that wouldn't necessarily leave any evidence.
    - Spooky23 5y ago
      I was thinking of using a jimmy bar to pop the window lock. I’m a pretty insignificant person without enemies. My risk profile is a crackhead stealing my TV or whatever. A more organized criminal could find a dozen other ways in.
      - Nextgrid 5y ago
        The problem is that these same systems are used in office buildings where the threat model is very different.

by meibo 5y ago

Nextgrid 5y ago

The cheap, self-contained ones yes. But I’m talking about “proper” ones where the reader and controller are separate. While it indeed depends on the threat model, the problem is that a lot of these electronic systems are sold at a high price to building management companies while being horribly insecure. At least if they were cheap then fair enough - you get what you pay for - but that isn't the case here; they provide a false sense of security.

Spooky23 5y ago
The building management companies were fine with commercial keys in the 80s. They are paying for a system to map entitlement to lock. The quality of the lock is a small part of the overall equation. I’ll give you an example of my home. The previously homeowner installed a high quality Medeco lock. It’s difficult to pick (unless you are YouTube’s lockpickinglawyee) and the keys are a pain to duplicate. Secure, right? Not really. My front door is on a porch with a window, and you could trivially use a thin metal bar to pop the window open, assuming that you wanted to keep the noise down.
- Nextgrid 5y ago
  It's actually secure in the sense that the lock is difficult to pick and breaking the window leaves evidence of the break-in. In contrast, exploiting these electronic locks leaves no evidence - the same would apply to easily pickable mechanical locks of course, but at least the shitty mechanical ones are cheap.
  - BenjiWiebe 5y ago
    Though if he's referring to "picking" the window's latch, then that wouldn't necessarily leave any evidence.
  - Spooky23 5y ago
    I was thinking of using a jimmy bar to pop the window lock. I’m a pretty insignificant person without enemies. My risk profile is a crackhead stealing my TV or whatever. A more organized criminal could find a dozen other ways in.
    - Nextgrid 5y ago
      The problem is that these same systems are used in office buildings where the threat model is very different.