6 ms·

Can someone explain for those of us less familiar with Apple - can a Macbook not be used without a valid Apple ID, that Apple can revoke at any time?

bobbylarrybobby 5y ago
You can use one without an Apple ID. I think the issue here is that once OP logged in, the computer recognized that an Apple ID was associated with the computer, but there was no way to remove it without the password, which was impossible because the account had been deleted
mattl 5y ago
You don’t need an Apple ID to use a Mac. However downloading apps from the App Store requires one. You can also log into the OS with an Apple ID but also not required.
- aspenmayer 5y ago
  You can also use a local non-Apple ID account to login, and selectively login to only the Apple services and apps you need or want, including App Store.
sturza 5y ago
You can set it up without an Apple ID.
- blondin 5y ago
  i doubt it. i recently walked a friend through setting up a their MacBook Air M1. and, like you said, i told them to skip setting an Apple ID. that it was not necessary. but the first setup doesn't allow you to skip. or didn't make it obvious how to do so. (dark pattern?) i suppose one could use keyboard shortcuts, or install in safe mode, etc... but for the regular users won't be able to skip that step.
  - lathiat 5y ago
    You can definitely still do it but like windows now the button is like off to the bottom left somewhere and hard to find.
  - sneak 5y ago
    It does allow you to skip, but you're right that it's a dark pattern. Apple really wants you to be on board with their network services, because Apple 3.0 wants recurring services revenue like a crackhead wants crack.
    - chipotle_coyote 5y ago
      > Apple 3.0 wants recurring services revenue like a crackhead wants crack While this is true (to my increasing chagrin), having an Apple ID in and of itself doesn't cost you anything. It does create an account that you can then tie charges to. I don't, however, recall this quite rising to the level of what I'd call a "dark pattern"; IIRC when I set up my M1 MacBook Air not that long ago, the "Enter your Apple ID" had a "Skip this step" link that was pretty easy to find.
      - Terretta 5y ago
        On Macbook the "Set Up Later" is lower left of the dialog box, so it does require swiveling your eyeballs in their sockets until your attention lands 2 inches from center. Kind of an off-white pattern, maybe?
        chipotle_coyote 5y ago
        I kind of love that description. "We don't want a dark pattern, but maybe it could be, you know, beige?"
        JimDabell 5y ago
        It’s not a dark pattern at all. The step that appears immediately before this one is the one where you can choose to set up accessibility features. The skip option is in the bottom left on that step as well. The skip option on that screen is the option most people will choose, so a) everybody will already be primed to know there’s a skip option in the bottom left by the time they reach the Apple ID step, and b) it seems clear that this is just the design language for the setup wizard and not Apple attempting to hide the skip option. Unless you think Apple wants to intentionally trick people into setting up accessibility features as well?
afandian 5y ago
It can, you just have to reject the pushy signup screens on startup. Can it be kept updated with system updates? Don't know any more.
- aspenmayer 5y ago
  Automatic updates or manual updates to macOS do not require login with Apple ID. You don’t even need original Mac hardware, as is the case with hackintoshes and virtual machines, although full backups before installing a macOS version upgrade is advised in the case of non-genuine hardware.
j1elo 5y ago
It's a bit like an Android phone: you can use it perfectly fine, but the Play Store requires you to log into a Google account before letting you install apps. At least, on Android you can use the Aurora store, or install .apk files manually... but that's another story.
- Doctor_Fegg 5y ago
  You can install apps fine on a Mac without an Apple ID; just not from Apple’s own App Store.
35mm_guy 5y ago
You can use it fine without an Apple ID and you also get security updates for the installed OS (they do not require to be signed in) The AppleID you use is used for the AppStore and iCloud (you can use different ones and to some extend multiple ones). Usually you create an additional AppleID for just buying/downloading sofware from the AppStore, just like you would do on Android or the Microsoft store. Same deal here. And use a different iCloud account, if you want to use any of it's offerings. If an account is locked or disasbled you usually just reset the password as one of both is usually done on suspicious login attempts. Never heard of what the OP descibes, unless it is a pre-owned device still associated with a different account or some enterprise management profile in installed. Both should not be the case if he just bought it from Apple directly. In any case sounds more like an issue with the device itself than the AppleID. But I can just speculate here, which is ofc not helpful for the OP.
- philistine 5y ago
  You're speculating a bit too much. The problem is with Allow Apple ID to reset your password. If this is enabled, Apple basically gets the ability to lock you out of your computer. For this reason, I always leave it off, and recommend everybody does the same.
  - nfoz 5y ago
    In another light, automatic security updates also gives Apple the ability to lock you out of your computer.
    - philistine 5y ago
      Yeah, absolutely. But those can’t be gamed by a third-party to lock me out of my stuff.
Synaesthesia 5y ago
You can use it just fine, you just can't access icloud, and app store. But it's possible OP had his account tied to icloud and possibly his macbook encrypted to that, so that he couldn't log in or something.
ravenstine 5y ago
I haven't used an Apple ID with my MacBook for several years now. Never had an issue. Life is just fine without the Apple cloud.
- olalonde 5y ago
  Unfortunately some software (e.g. WireGuard) can only be installed through the app store, which requires an Apple ID.
  - amenghra 5y ago
    From the wireguard install page: $ brew install wireguard-tools Or $ port install wireguard-tools You could also just compile it yourself.
    - olalonde 5y ago
      That installs the CLI, the WireGuard GUI app is only available on the app store. Same for Outline (another VPN).
      - morganvachon 5y ago
        If that's the case then the GUI app isn't open source and is a completely different product from the CLI version, and differently licensed. If the CLI version can't do everything the GUI version can, I'd be keen to move to a more open and honest platform, especially for something as personal as a VPN.
        wyclif 5y ago
        They are not the same things. The App Store Wireguard does not support certain directives that are included in the CLI version (see my comment further up the thread).
  - wyclif 5y ago
    Note that the command line interface for Wireguard is not optional on the server, the Wireguard App on the App Store is not sufficient for managing a Wireguard server due to macOS’s sandbox restrictions. (Specifically, the PostUp and PostDown directives are not supported in the App Store’s Wireguard App).
lozenge 5y ago
If you change your Apple password, the system goes insane with the reauthentication prompts and the only way to fix is to enter a password (or create a new user account). I don't know which optional service it is exactly - could be iCloud sync, iTunes, App Store, Find My, etc. The same happens on iPhones/iPads when you change your Apple password from another computer. However, the Mac is still usable and they can reboot into Recovery mode to download and re-install the OS. Not sure about Find My (for iPad/iPhone), as it's an anti-theft feature it can't be disabled or factory reset.
- philistine 5y ago
  I'd check using these steps (https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202860 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202860) to see if you can reset your password using your Apple ID. If you can, then I'd recommend turning it off.
- PragmaticPulp 5y ago
  > If you change your Apple password, the system goes insane with the reauthentication prompts and the only way to fix is to enter a password (or create a new user account). Weird. I rotate my password on a regular basis and I’ve never had this happen. I wonder what service triggers it for you.
  - olliej 5y ago
    While using your appleid as your system login?
mlindner 5y ago
There's no connection to an Apple ID unless you want it. You don't need to connect it to any Apple ID to use it. You can change the Apple ID at any time.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

bobbylarrybobby 5y ago

You can use one without an Apple ID. I think the issue here is that once OP logged in, the computer recognized that an Apple ID was associated with the computer, but there was no way to remove it without the password, which was impossible because the account had been deleted

mattl 5y ago

You don’t need an Apple ID to use a Mac. However downloading apps from the App Store requires one. You can also log into the OS with an Apple ID but also not required.

aspenmayer 5y ago
You can also use a local non-Apple ID account to login, and selectively login to only the Apple services and apps you need or want, including App Store.

sturza 5y ago

You can set it up without an Apple ID.

blondin 5y ago
i doubt it. i recently walked a friend through setting up a their MacBook Air M1. and, like you said, i told them to skip setting an Apple ID. that it was not necessary. but the first setup doesn't allow you to skip. or didn't make it obvious how to do so. (dark pattern?) i suppose one could use keyboard shortcuts, or install in safe mode, etc... but for the regular users won't be able to skip that step.
- lathiat 5y ago
  You can definitely still do it but like windows now the button is like off to the bottom left somewhere and hard to find.
- sneak 5y ago
  It does allow you to skip, but you're right that it's a dark pattern. Apple really wants you to be on board with their network services, because Apple 3.0 wants recurring services revenue like a crackhead wants crack.
  - chipotle_coyote 5y ago
    > Apple 3.0 wants recurring services revenue like a crackhead wants crack While this is true (to my increasing chagrin), having an Apple ID in and of itself doesn't cost you anything. It does create an account that you can then tie charges to. I don't, however, recall this quite rising to the level of what I'd call a "dark pattern"; IIRC when I set up my M1 MacBook Air not that long ago, the "Enter your Apple ID" had a "Skip this step" link that was pretty easy to find.
    - Terretta 5y ago
      On Macbook the "Set Up Later" is lower left of the dialog box, so it does require swiveling your eyeballs in their sockets until your attention lands 2 inches from center. Kind of an off-white pattern, maybe?
      - chipotle_coyote 5y ago
        I kind of love that description. "We don't want a dark pattern, but maybe it could be, you know, beige?"
      - JimDabell 5y ago
        It’s not a dark pattern at all. The step that appears immediately before this one is the one where you can choose to set up accessibility features. The skip option is in the bottom left on that step as well. The skip option on that screen is the option most people will choose, so a) everybody will already be primed to know there’s a skip option in the bottom left by the time they reach the Apple ID step, and b) it seems clear that this is just the design language for the setup wizard and not Apple attempting to hide the skip option. Unless you think Apple wants to intentionally trick people into setting up accessibility features as well?

afandian 5y ago

It can, you just have to reject the pushy signup screens on startup. Can it be kept updated with system updates? Don't know any more.

aspenmayer 5y ago
Automatic updates or manual updates to macOS do not require login with Apple ID. You don’t even need original Mac hardware, as is the case with hackintoshes and virtual machines, although full backups before installing a macOS version upgrade is advised in the case of non-genuine hardware.

j1elo 5y ago

It's a bit like an Android phone: you can use it perfectly fine, but the Play Store requires you to log into a Google account before letting you install apps. At least, on Android you can use the Aurora store, or install .apk files manually... but that's another story.

Doctor_Fegg 5y ago
You can install apps fine on a Mac without an Apple ID; just not from Apple’s own App Store.

35mm_guy 5y ago

You can use it fine without an Apple ID and you also get security updates for the installed OS (they do not require to be signed in) The AppleID you use is used for the AppStore and iCloud (you can use different ones and to some extend multiple ones). Usually you create an additional AppleID for just buying/downloading sofware from the AppStore, just like you would do on Android or the Microsoft store. Same deal here. And use a different iCloud account, if you want to use any of it's offerings. If an account is locked or disasbled you usually just reset the password as one of both is usually done on suspicious login attempts. Never heard of what the OP descibes, unless it is a pre-owned device still associated with a different account or some enterprise management profile in installed. Both should not be the case if he just bought it from Apple directly. In any case sounds more like an issue with the device itself than the AppleID. But I can just speculate here, which is ofc not helpful for the OP.

philistine 5y ago
You're speculating a bit too much. The problem is with Allow Apple ID to reset your password. If this is enabled, Apple basically gets the ability to lock you out of your computer. For this reason, I always leave it off, and recommend everybody does the same.
- nfoz 5y ago
  In another light, automatic security updates also gives Apple the ability to lock you out of your computer.
  - philistine 5y ago
    Yeah, absolutely. But those can’t be gamed by a third-party to lock me out of my stuff.

Synaesthesia 5y ago

You can use it just fine, you just can't access icloud, and app store. But it's possible OP had his account tied to icloud and possibly his macbook encrypted to that, so that he couldn't log in or something.

ravenstine 5y ago

I haven't used an Apple ID with my MacBook for several years now. Never had an issue. Life is just fine without the Apple cloud.

olalonde 5y ago
Unfortunately some software (e.g. WireGuard) can only be installed through the app store, which requires an Apple ID.
- amenghra 5y ago
  From the wireguard install page: $ brew install wireguard-tools Or $ port install wireguard-tools You could also just compile it yourself.
  - olalonde 5y ago
    That installs the CLI, the WireGuard GUI app is only available on the app store. Same for Outline (another VPN).
    - morganvachon 5y ago
      If that's the case then the GUI app isn't open source and is a completely different product from the CLI version, and differently licensed. If the CLI version can't do everything the GUI version can, I'd be keen to move to a more open and honest platform, especially for something as personal as a VPN.
      - wyclif 5y ago
        They are not the same things. The App Store Wireguard does not support certain directives that are included in the CLI version (see my comment further up the thread).
- wyclif 5y ago
  Note that the command line interface for Wireguard is not optional on the server, the Wireguard App on the App Store is not sufficient for managing a Wireguard server due to macOS’s sandbox restrictions. (Specifically, the PostUp and PostDown directives are not supported in the App Store’s Wireguard App).

lozenge 5y ago

If you change your Apple password, the system goes insane with the reauthentication prompts and the only way to fix is to enter a password (or create a new user account). I don't know which optional service it is exactly - could be iCloud sync, iTunes, App Store, Find My, etc. The same happens on iPhones/iPads when you change your Apple password from another computer. However, the Mac is still usable and they can reboot into Recovery mode to download and re-install the OS. Not sure about Find My (for iPad/iPhone), as it's an anti-theft feature it can't be disabled or factory reset.

philistine 5y ago
I'd check using these steps (https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202860 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202860) to see if you can reset your password using your Apple ID. If you can, then I'd recommend turning it off.
PragmaticPulp 5y ago
> If you change your Apple password, the system goes insane with the reauthentication prompts and the only way to fix is to enter a password (or create a new user account). Weird. I rotate my password on a regular basis and I’ve never had this happen. I wonder what service triggers it for you.
- olliej 5y ago
  While using your appleid as your system login?

mlindner 5y ago

There's no connection to an Apple ID unless you want it. You don't need to connect it to any Apple ID to use it. You can change the Apple ID at any time.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]