5 ms·

I was the same as a kid - I really struggled with the early mornings, and could never sleep before midnight. Come the weekend, and I was so tired I'd sleep unti

I was the same as a kid - I really struggled with the early mornings, and could never sleep before midnight. Come the weekend, and I was so tired I'd sleep until midday. When I first started at high school, I was a great student, for example winning multiple prizes over the first 18 months. But the tiredness really took a toll, and for most of the rest of school I was a half zombie - I still did well at school, but I'm sure I could have achieved so much more if I wasn't so incredibly tired all the time, and it for sure took a toll on my social life too. Us two were maybe more extreme examples, but it seems to be a common problem. I don't know what the solution is though?

ianai 5y ago
Just start school later in the day. That's the solution. The real problem is that the rest of society wants to start at set times. People don't want their kids "home alone" after they've left for work or before they come home from work. All of society just isn't geared toward flexibility for its constituents.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- apple4ever 5y ago
  Agreed. I know a lot of it is busing - they have to bus elementary kids then the MS/HS kids. But it should be switched at least. Young kids get up early, older kids don't. Regardless, school in general should start later, and so should businesses. If I'm left to my own devices without external factors, I will go to sleep at 2am and get up at 10am. And that's what I did during the lockdowns. But otherwise, its punishing when I have to get up at 7am to be at work at 8 or 9.
blindmute 5y ago
If you were so tired, why couldn't you just sleep earlier at night? If I'm remembering my own teen years correctly, most of us chose to stay up late not because we couldn't sleep, but because we just wanted to, sleep be damned. Everyone complains about having to get up early, but the sleep deprivation is self inflicted. If you're tired, you can sleep at 9pm.
- stouset 5y ago
  This isn’t how bodies or sleep work in the general case.
- progman32 5y ago
  Don't take this personally (I really do mean it) but I think this attitude is part of the problem. My best, most alert hours are after ten pm. I can't just will those away, and I've tried. There is enormous social stigma around being a late riser. We're characterized as having low self control or accused of laziness. Perhaps that's deserved in some cases, but morning people can be those things too. I can go to bed at six pm and I'll guarantee you I'll still be a wreck at six am. Night owls work well in the evening. Even if some of them can force themselves to operate early, is it reasonable to expect them to sacrifice their best hours? Rant over, it's early for me after all :)
  - GordonS 5y ago
    > We're characterized as having low self control or accused of laziness. Yep, I remember my Dad telling me I was lazy - it seemed really unfair, as there was nothing I could do about it.
- washadjeffmad 5y ago
  Two reasons, chiefly. Every body is governed by circadian rhythm. There is no "right" or "wrong" way to be, but the majority tends to overrule the minority in this great experiment we call modern society. Unfortunately, the "majority" are not developing children, but adults in authority who are less affected by disruptions to their sleep and don't have to prioritize the health and wellbeing of their charges and so don't. The second reason is more artificial. In the US, homework is given without any consideration for work or life schedules, let alone what other classes are assigning. I went to a "school of excellence" where I took eight classes each day, five days a week, and they all assigned roughly an hour's worth of homework each night. I had no time to work and barely any time to participate in extracurriculars without staying up each night until 11pm. Because I lived in a different city, I generally had to leave by 5:45am to make my zero period. Can you tell me what my younger self could have done differently so they were able to be asleep by 9pm?
hirako2000 5y ago
my solution worked ok: sleep at school. it's not ideal, but it also saved me from being entirely brainwashed and prevented teachers from killing my creativity. let's not ignore the fact schools were designed long ago to 1/ shape future factory workers into well behaved blue collars, while 2/ making it possible for parents to go to work. before the industrial revolution, most people were farmers. Kids were out playing, stayed home safe or participated to gardening activities. the issue with school is far more deep rooted into how our society sadly operates. it may be impossible to fix one without addressing the other.
- iLoveOncall 5y ago
  > before the industrial revolution, most people were farmers. Kids were out playing, stayed home safe or participated to gardening activities. Ah yes, the good old times where nobody could read or write and your only perspective in life was to be a farmer like your father and his father before him!
  - animal_spirits 5y ago
    No one is claiming that was better, just giving a brief history of how we got where we are.
  - hirako2000 5y ago
    as other comment pointed out, nobody is making a value comparison, but since you are at it, at least let's not be derogatory about farmers life. there is still a good portion of the world population living that lifestyle. Having been closely in touch with some, a few interesting things stood out to me: they have outstanding communication skills and are very pragmatic, down to earth when assessing their own situation vs the urbanised population, are far less easily influenced and seem to have a gotten a far more hollistic education. they navigate a difficult economy where they produce undoubtly tremendous value yet get a small share of the reward and respect. To get back on the thread subject, I don't recall having seen any sleep deprived farmers, despite the hard labour they have to participate in each day of their hardship seasons. I'm not sure what is their only perspective, it may well be to be a farmer, I never asked that question since it appeared to me that they aren't suffering existential issues. what is your perspective(s) in life? other than being able to read, write and not being a farmer?

ianai 5y ago

Just start school later in the day. That's the solution. The real problem is that the rest of society wants to start at set times. People don't want their kids "home alone" after they've left for work or before they come home from work. All of society just isn't geared toward flexibility for its constituents.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
apple4ever 5y ago
Agreed. I know a lot of it is busing - they have to bus elementary kids then the MS/HS kids. But it should be switched at least. Young kids get up early, older kids don't. Regardless, school in general should start later, and so should businesses. If I'm left to my own devices without external factors, I will go to sleep at 2am and get up at 10am. And that's what I did during the lockdowns. But otherwise, its punishing when I have to get up at 7am to be at work at 8 or 9.

blindmute 5y ago

If you were so tired, why couldn't you just sleep earlier at night? If I'm remembering my own teen years correctly, most of us chose to stay up late not because we couldn't sleep, but because we just wanted to, sleep be damned. Everyone complains about having to get up early, but the sleep deprivation is self inflicted. If you're tired, you can sleep at 9pm.

stouset 5y ago
This isn’t how bodies or sleep work in the general case.
progman32 5y ago
Don't take this personally (I really do mean it) but I think this attitude is part of the problem. My best, most alert hours are after ten pm. I can't just will those away, and I've tried. There is enormous social stigma around being a late riser. We're characterized as having low self control or accused of laziness. Perhaps that's deserved in some cases, but morning people can be those things too. I can go to bed at six pm and I'll guarantee you I'll still be a wreck at six am. Night owls work well in the evening. Even if some of them can force themselves to operate early, is it reasonable to expect them to sacrifice their best hours? Rant over, it's early for me after all :)
- GordonS 5y ago
  > We're characterized as having low self control or accused of laziness. Yep, I remember my Dad telling me I was lazy - it seemed really unfair, as there was nothing I could do about it.
washadjeffmad 5y ago
Two reasons, chiefly. Every body is governed by circadian rhythm. There is no "right" or "wrong" way to be, but the majority tends to overrule the minority in this great experiment we call modern society. Unfortunately, the "majority" are not developing children, but adults in authority who are less affected by disruptions to their sleep and don't have to prioritize the health and wellbeing of their charges and so don't. The second reason is more artificial. In the US, homework is given without any consideration for work or life schedules, let alone what other classes are assigning. I went to a "school of excellence" where I took eight classes each day, five days a week, and they all assigned roughly an hour's worth of homework each night. I had no time to work and barely any time to participate in extracurriculars without staying up each night until 11pm. Because I lived in a different city, I generally had to leave by 5:45am to make my zero period. Can you tell me what my younger self could have done differently so they were able to be asleep by 9pm?

hirako2000 5y ago

my solution worked ok: sleep at school. it's not ideal, but it also saved me from being entirely brainwashed and prevented teachers from killing my creativity. let's not ignore the fact schools were designed long ago to 1/ shape future factory workers into well behaved blue collars, while 2/ making it possible for parents to go to work. before the industrial revolution, most people were farmers. Kids were out playing, stayed home safe or participated to gardening activities. the issue with school is far more deep rooted into how our society sadly operates. it may be impossible to fix one without addressing the other.

iLoveOncall 5y ago
> before the industrial revolution, most people were farmers. Kids were out playing, stayed home safe or participated to gardening activities. Ah yes, the good old times where nobody could read or write and your only perspective in life was to be a farmer like your father and his father before him!
- animal_spirits 5y ago
  No one is claiming that was better, just giving a brief history of how we got where we are.
- hirako2000 5y ago
  as other comment pointed out, nobody is making a value comparison, but since you are at it, at least let's not be derogatory about farmers life. there is still a good portion of the world population living that lifestyle. Having been closely in touch with some, a few interesting things stood out to me: they have outstanding communication skills and are very pragmatic, down to earth when assessing their own situation vs the urbanised population, are far less easily influenced and seem to have a gotten a far more hollistic education. they navigate a difficult economy where they produce undoubtly tremendous value yet get a small share of the reward and respect. To get back on the thread subject, I don't recall having seen any sleep deprived farmers, despite the hard labour they have to participate in each day of their hardship seasons. I'm not sure what is their only perspective, it may well be to be a farmer, I never asked that question since it appeared to me that they aren't suffering existential issues. what is your perspective(s) in life? other than being able to read, write and not being a farmer?