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Until recently I worked support in a large design firm. I love (/hate) Macs, but the firm like most places was mostly Windows. The graphic designers of course g

Until recently I worked support in a large design firm. I love (/hate) Macs, but the firm like most places was mostly Windows. The graphic designers of course got Macs, and were mostly Mac-native and loved it. But I have so many stories of 40+ manager-level people pulling strings to get a Macbook because it's "hip", who were like fish out of water on MacOS. Strangely no amount of time spent with it seemed to get the core concepts across, they just came up with groan-inducing workarounds that were good enough for them. A couple decades spent on Windows seems to really poison some people against MacOS for good.

sbuk 5y ago
Having worked in IT support early on in my career, I have observed that the typical user doesn't so much learn how to use a computer/OS as much as they learn to perform tasks by rote. You will get users that live in Word or Excel and know it inside and out, but for most other tasks they are stumped. This, I would suggest is the same for the "70 year old" grandmothers out there using "Linux".
analog31 5y ago
>>> A couple decades spent on Windows seems to really poison some people against MacOS for good. I spent several years with 68k/PPC Mac, and was recently given an older MacBook with Snow Leopard. Both of those systems were equally touted as being intuitive. I learned the old Mac by having friends who showed me the ropes, and reading manuals. The newer Mac was completely opaque to me. A potential issue is that the Mac is touted as "intuitive," but that's a marketing buzzword. In reality, "intuitive" means it uses symbols and workflows that you've already learned to recognize. And the training process has changed, or has simply vanished. My mom (89, taught programming in the 80s), first learned to use Windows from manuals. And it's harder to learn when you get older. For myself, I've learned to be platform-agnostic. Realistically, I seldom interact with the operating system, except perhaps for the file explorer. Things like setting up networking are O(1), meaning you do them once and forget about it. The rest of the time, I'm working inside apps that are remarkably consistent across platforms, such as the browser and programming tools. A bad website design is equally bad across platforms. I choose a new computer and platform based on a few simple needs such as good battery lifetime, and a touch screen.
BuckRogers 5y ago
That's interesting analysis, and I think you're onto something. I've owned Macbooks in the past, but I never liked macOS. In fact, I'm old enough that I never really liked Windows. I spent my formative years on a Commodore and DOS. That said, for GUIs, none really felt as right to me as Windows does. I'm capable of fully adjusting to macOS, but I don't want to. But I'm practical. If Windows machines never get close to the battery life of the M1s, then I'd eventually jump ship. I suspected Intel's 12th gen chips will be the beginning of a new era on that front. For me, it's about getting things done and running smooth while doing it. Whatever that takes. I bailed on Android phones after the Samsung GS3 because my 5S was just more reliable. iPhones have their pain points, like Lightning ports, USB 2.0 speeds in 2022, and software limits on how large of files you can transfer by a cable, requiring workarounds like Simple Transfer Pro. But I weight it all out and decide if any given trade off is worth it in the end. I don't understand illogical stances about tribes and grudges against the other team. Use what works. As a developer, I've had good luck requesting Thinkpads at work. I use an X1 Extreme at work and it's very reliable. I'd never request a Macbook, but I've had the urge when most PCs were squeaking pieces of plastic. I think the only reason anything but a CLI is necessary is due to the internet. Without it, I wouldn't see the need for it. Applications would simply have to be full featured, absent the multitasking required today.

sbuk 5y ago

Having worked in IT support early on in my career, I have observed that the typical user doesn't so much learn how to use a computer/OS as much as they learn to perform tasks by rote. You will get users that live in Word or Excel and know it inside and out, but for most other tasks they are stumped. This, I would suggest is the same for the "70 year old" grandmothers out there using "Linux".

analog31 5y ago

>>> A couple decades spent on Windows seems to really poison some people against MacOS for good. I spent several years with 68k/PPC Mac, and was recently given an older MacBook with Snow Leopard. Both of those systems were equally touted as being intuitive. I learned the old Mac by having friends who showed me the ropes, and reading manuals. The newer Mac was completely opaque to me. A potential issue is that the Mac is touted as "intuitive," but that's a marketing buzzword. In reality, "intuitive" means it uses symbols and workflows that you've already learned to recognize. And the training process has changed, or has simply vanished. My mom (89, taught programming in the 80s), first learned to use Windows from manuals. And it's harder to learn when you get older. For myself, I've learned to be platform-agnostic. Realistically, I seldom interact with the operating system, except perhaps for the file explorer. Things like setting up networking are O(1), meaning you do them once and forget about it. The rest of the time, I'm working inside apps that are remarkably consistent across platforms, such as the browser and programming tools. A bad website design is equally bad across platforms. I choose a new computer and platform based on a few simple needs such as good battery lifetime, and a touch screen.

BuckRogers 5y ago

That's interesting analysis, and I think you're onto something. I've owned Macbooks in the past, but I never liked macOS. In fact, I'm old enough that I never really liked Windows. I spent my formative years on a Commodore and DOS. That said, for GUIs, none really felt as right to me as Windows does. I'm capable of fully adjusting to macOS, but I don't want to. But I'm practical. If Windows machines never get close to the battery life of the M1s, then I'd eventually jump ship. I suspected Intel's 12th gen chips will be the beginning of a new era on that front. For me, it's about getting things done and running smooth while doing it. Whatever that takes. I bailed on Android phones after the Samsung GS3 because my 5S was just more reliable. iPhones have their pain points, like Lightning ports, USB 2.0 speeds in 2022, and software limits on how large of files you can transfer by a cable, requiring workarounds like Simple Transfer Pro. But I weight it all out and decide if any given trade off is worth it in the end. I don't understand illogical stances about tribes and grudges against the other team. Use what works. As a developer, I've had good luck requesting Thinkpads at work. I use an X1 Extreme at work and it's very reliable. I'd never request a Macbook, but I've had the urge when most PCs were squeaking pieces of plastic. I think the only reason anything but a CLI is necessary is due to the internet. Without it, I wouldn't see the need for it. Applications would simply have to be full featured, absent the multitasking required today.