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>Please, use this line if you ever end up defending yourself in court! I will bring the popcorn. At least now we understand you take joy in suffering of others

>Please, use this line if you ever end up defending yourself in court! I will bring the popcorn. At least now we understand you take joy in suffering of others. >don't expect most civilized, equity-minded people to agree with you You say that what they vote for represents them. If what represents them is bombing little Afghani kids or staging coup in central and south America (and by your statements, it does), I have no desire to be in agreement with such savages. >Sorry, but you don't get to opt out of democracy because you don't like the tenet that binds everyone to the laws made by our representatives. So your response is basically, fuck you do what I say and follow my political system, leave, or get gunned down by government agents if you resist inevitably being ordered to court. You sound like the selfish, others be damned one not I. Wow, how "fair" that sounds on a thread that was originally concerning fairness. >and that we should all just look out for ourselves This is a presumptuous and arrogant statement that ignores the charitable and personal contributions I've (and others) made to others without taxation. You think I haven't looked out for others with contributions performed outside of government? Not everyone is so selfish as you may be that they wouldn't help others if not forced at gunpoint. >there are probably other countries that would welcome you. Except I would still have to file US taxes and report bank accounts unless I renounce US citizenship, but that cost thousands and has to be done abroad. Even if you leave the US, you can't escape the coercion of US government nor US taxes (either at least filing, or paying the ~$2000 "exit tax" of renouncing). FATCA mean merely having US place of birth many worldwide banks are afraid to take me, US citizen or not.

otterley 5y ago
> So your response is basically ... follow my political system, leave, or get gunned down by government agents if you resist inevitably being ordered to court. Well, if you don't do these things, you are a criminal. That's pretty much the textbook definition. > Wow, how "fair" that sounds on a thread that was originally concerning fairness. You have a strange conception of fairness. Fairness doesn't mean you get to do what you want regardless of what the law says. Fairness is about having rules apply uniformly to everyone. Some, including me, also believe it means having a level playing field for competition (again, subject to boundaries to protect fairness), where new entrants aren't privileged because of who their parents were and all that entails. (This latter goal is nowhere near achieved yet, and I fully admit I'm a beneficiary of this privilege, as are all American citizens to some extent.) > This is a presumptuous and arrogant statement that ignores the charitable and personal contributions I've (and others) made to others without taxation. Good for you. I bet you have a Black friend, too. > Except I would still have to file US taxes and report bank accounts unless I renounce US citizenship, but that cost thousands and has to be done abroad. Time to get started! It sounds like it should be worth it to you.
- notch656a 5y ago
  >Time to get started! It sounds like it should be worth it to you. Nah you leave. >Well, if you don't do these things, you are a criminal. That's pretty much the textbook definition. I don't have any problem with criminals who operate non-coercively, like people who drop acid or don't pay taxes. I don't equate law with morality (or fairness). To me often to be a criminal is to be the good guy. > Fairness is about having the rules apply uniformly to everyone. Nah fairness to me means no coercion. If 51% whites vote blacks have to be their slaves, that's democratic but definitely unfairly and coercive. Same if 2 of 3 siblings vote their house is a country and the law is they get the marble of the third. Democracy here is some people voting for a representative who represents some bombs into others. How many old people do you have to put out on benefits to justify one dead Iraqi, in your opinion? >Good for you. I bet you have a Black friend, too. Basically your flippant dismissal of private charity and your smugness of funding social programs at gunpoint. Not surprised though. Why don't you head up to the Red Cross office and tell them "good for you, I bet you have a Black [sic on 'B'] friend." Did I even tell you what race I am, or are you just racist enough to think me having a black friend means something different? Or is it just you think no one who is black could possibly have an ideology that involves finding taxes illegitimate? Do you see the black mind as different or something? I want to get a real understanding of how deep your racism seeps.
  - otterley 5y ago
    > I don't equate law with morality (or fairness). To me often to be a criminal is to be the good guy. I think we've reached the end of this conversation with a clear understanding of the type of person you are. This is a garden-variety description of egotistical selfishness -- a person who is totally unwilling to follow rules that seem subjectively unfair to him, regardless of objective fairness, and despite the fact that the vast majority of others are willing to follow these rules, even if they disagree with the details. We create law to reflect what our shared morality and conceptions of fairness are, even though we admittedly don't have perfect laws yet. If you don't understand that, you don't understand the essence of democracy; you are fundamentally an anarchist. Worse, you are a hypocrite: You gladly take full advantage of the protections the law affords you, while expressing disdain for the protections and fairness-guiding that the law affords others. I'm done with this thread.

otterley 5y ago

> So your response is basically ... follow my political system, leave, or get gunned down by government agents if you resist inevitably being ordered to court. Well, if you don't do these things, you are a criminal. That's pretty much the textbook definition. > Wow, how "fair" that sounds on a thread that was originally concerning fairness. You have a strange conception of fairness. Fairness doesn't mean you get to do what you want regardless of what the law says. Fairness is about having rules apply uniformly to everyone. Some, including me, also believe it means having a level playing field for competition (again, subject to boundaries to protect fairness), where new entrants aren't privileged because of who their parents were and all that entails. (This latter goal is nowhere near achieved yet, and I fully admit I'm a beneficiary of this privilege, as are all American citizens to some extent.) > This is a presumptuous and arrogant statement that ignores the charitable and personal contributions I've (and others) made to others without taxation. Good for you. I bet you have a Black friend, too. > Except I would still have to file US taxes and report bank accounts unless I renounce US citizenship, but that cost thousands and has to be done abroad. Time to get started! It sounds like it should be worth it to you.

notch656a 5y ago
>Time to get started! It sounds like it should be worth it to you. Nah you leave. >Well, if you don't do these things, you are a criminal. That's pretty much the textbook definition. I don't have any problem with criminals who operate non-coercively, like people who drop acid or don't pay taxes. I don't equate law with morality (or fairness). To me often to be a criminal is to be the good guy. > Fairness is about having the rules apply uniformly to everyone. Nah fairness to me means no coercion. If 51% whites vote blacks have to be their slaves, that's democratic but definitely unfairly and coercive. Same if 2 of 3 siblings vote their house is a country and the law is they get the marble of the third. Democracy here is some people voting for a representative who represents some bombs into others. How many old people do you have to put out on benefits to justify one dead Iraqi, in your opinion? >Good for you. I bet you have a Black friend, too. Basically your flippant dismissal of private charity and your smugness of funding social programs at gunpoint. Not surprised though. Why don't you head up to the Red Cross office and tell them "good for you, I bet you have a Black [sic on 'B'] friend." Did I even tell you what race I am, or are you just racist enough to think me having a black friend means something different? Or is it just you think no one who is black could possibly have an ideology that involves finding taxes illegitimate? Do you see the black mind as different or something? I want to get a real understanding of how deep your racism seeps.
- otterley 5y ago
  > I don't equate law with morality (or fairness). To me often to be a criminal is to be the good guy. I think we've reached the end of this conversation with a clear understanding of the type of person you are. This is a garden-variety description of egotistical selfishness -- a person who is totally unwilling to follow rules that seem subjectively unfair to him, regardless of objective fairness, and despite the fact that the vast majority of others are willing to follow these rules, even if they disagree with the details. We create law to reflect what our shared morality and conceptions of fairness are, even though we admittedly don't have perfect laws yet. If you don't understand that, you don't understand the essence of democracy; you are fundamentally an anarchist. Worse, you are a hypocrite: You gladly take full advantage of the protections the law affords you, while expressing disdain for the protections and fairness-guiding that the law affords others. I'm done with this thread.