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I think the system is somewhat democratic. This is what the board of directors chose as his compensation and they themselves are elected. Remember, that Apple i

I think the system is somewhat democratic. This is what the board of directors chose as his compensation and they themselves are elected. Remember, that Apple is extremely large. These median salaries probably include retail store employee packages as well. If you look at just engineering, product, design salaries, the x factor here probably comes down to a factor of 10, so 140 instead of 1400.

gremlinsinc 5y ago
why should retail store workers make less than developers? Hours are hours time is time. People should be valued by willingness to work, maybe a small multiplier for a degree, but CEO's definitely need a pay cap, if the max he could earn is say 500x average salary, well guess what if the average salary increases by x percent he could end up making the SAME as he does now, except everybody else makes out like bandits too... or maybe he only makes the equivalent of 1000x now, but still 500x but the average wage is the equivalent where 1000x before is 500x now..etc...
- laluser 5y ago
  It's a completely different skill that you need to bring to the table. A retail employee just requires a week or so of training vs. a four year college degree (or similar experience) for an engineering job. Similarly, the skill that a good CEO brings to the table is equally as different. The article also mentions that his compensation in 2020 was like 4x lower, so that's interesting.
- yupper32 5y ago
  > Hours are hours time is time. That's not true. How long would it take a random person off the street to be good enough to work as a developer at Apple? How long for a retail store worker? The difference is years. The difference limits supply for good developers, and since the demand is also high, their labor is more expensive to buy than retail store workers. Limiting CEO pay to some multiplier is fine, but we don't have to pretend that everyone's labor should be similarly valued.
  - gremlinsinc 5y ago
    How long would it take a random person off the street to be good enough to work as a developer at Apple? If they had rich parents and didn't have to work at Apple to just survive, probably not long at all. They'd easily do it. The only reason they aren't successful is because of poverty. It's been hashed out between Paul Graham and the cloudflare ceo (iirc) that not anybody can build a company because true success requires having rich parents or supports you can fall back on while you're building prototypes and side businesses... >Oh Paul, you know better. I had to borrow money from my mom to pay my taxes when we were starting Cloudflare. But I certainly came from a relatively privileged background, and so did the AirBnB founders. It’s hard to take risks if you don’t have a safety net. source: https://twitter.com/eastdakota/status/1129929178382446592 https://twitter.com/eastdakota/status/1129929178382446592 Again given everybody starts at the same beginning starting line, then sure we can begin valuing people based on credentials, etc... but since we don't have a society like that....hours are the only equal output a person CAN give, and maybe a better measurement of their work ethic and value to society. society would kinda suck if I couldn't order a pizza because nobody wants to work shit wages....I value them, but I can't afford to personally pay them more than the cost of goods and maybe a tip... it's on the company and society to form unions and supports to ensure that they can lead happy lives without having to (because some don't want to) go through further schooling and education. When you're working 2 jobs and 80s per week and still can't own your own car, it becomes a big endeavor just to not decide to end it all after 10 or 20 years of that... it's grueling and miserable. Personally I think the only solution is re-building the strong unions of the 30s and 40s... but that's gonna take a long time to get right.
- scarab92 5y ago
  Your mental model is wrong. Employers don't pay for time they pay for value. If one developer automates a task previous done by 10 staff, they are more valuable than those 10 staff. Could Tim Cook be more valuable that 1400 staff? Easily. If you don't like it, become more valuable.

gremlinsinc 5y ago

why should retail store workers make less than developers? Hours are hours time is time. People should be valued by willingness to work, maybe a small multiplier for a degree, but CEO's definitely need a pay cap, if the max he could earn is say 500x average salary, well guess what if the average salary increases by x percent he could end up making the SAME as he does now, except everybody else makes out like bandits too... or maybe he only makes the equivalent of 1000x now, but still 500x but the average wage is the equivalent where 1000x before is 500x now..etc...

laluser 5y ago
It's a completely different skill that you need to bring to the table. A retail employee just requires a week or so of training vs. a four year college degree (or similar experience) for an engineering job. Similarly, the skill that a good CEO brings to the table is equally as different. The article also mentions that his compensation in 2020 was like 4x lower, so that's interesting.
yupper32 5y ago
> Hours are hours time is time. That's not true. How long would it take a random person off the street to be good enough to work as a developer at Apple? How long for a retail store worker? The difference is years. The difference limits supply for good developers, and since the demand is also high, their labor is more expensive to buy than retail store workers. Limiting CEO pay to some multiplier is fine, but we don't have to pretend that everyone's labor should be similarly valued.
- gremlinsinc 5y ago
  How long would it take a random person off the street to be good enough to work as a developer at Apple? If they had rich parents and didn't have to work at Apple to just survive, probably not long at all. They'd easily do it. The only reason they aren't successful is because of poverty. It's been hashed out between Paul Graham and the cloudflare ceo (iirc) that not anybody can build a company because true success requires having rich parents or supports you can fall back on while you're building prototypes and side businesses... >Oh Paul, you know better. I had to borrow money from my mom to pay my taxes when we were starting Cloudflare. But I certainly came from a relatively privileged background, and so did the AirBnB founders. It’s hard to take risks if you don’t have a safety net. source: https://twitter.com/eastdakota/status/1129929178382446592 https://twitter.com/eastdakota/status/1129929178382446592 Again given everybody starts at the same beginning starting line, then sure we can begin valuing people based on credentials, etc... but since we don't have a society like that....hours are the only equal output a person CAN give, and maybe a better measurement of their work ethic and value to society. society would kinda suck if I couldn't order a pizza because nobody wants to work shit wages....I value them, but I can't afford to personally pay them more than the cost of goods and maybe a tip... it's on the company and society to form unions and supports to ensure that they can lead happy lives without having to (because some don't want to) go through further schooling and education. When you're working 2 jobs and 80s per week and still can't own your own car, it becomes a big endeavor just to not decide to end it all after 10 or 20 years of that... it's grueling and miserable. Personally I think the only solution is re-building the strong unions of the 30s and 40s... but that's gonna take a long time to get right.
scarab92 5y ago
Your mental model is wrong. Employers don't pay for time they pay for value. If one developer automates a task previous done by 10 staff, they are more valuable than those 10 staff. Could Tim Cook be more valuable that 1400 staff? Easily. If you don't like it, become more valuable.