7 ms·

Okay, not defending his pay here, but 1,400 median employee salaries is not that crazy. First, think about the valuation of Apple since Tim took over. Yes, it's

Okay, not defending his pay here, but 1,400 median employee salaries is not that crazy. First, think about the valuation of Apple since Tim took over. Yes, it's not all attributed to him, but he has definitely made some very good decisions along the way, despite being set up with a money printer. Secondly, for every successful CEO package, there are hundreds of others that you don't hear about because they failed to meet goals laid out in their compensation package. Finally, these compensation packages are set up a few years before with targets that the company needs to meet.

throwhauser 5y ago
> Secondly, for every successful CEO package, there are hundreds of others that you don't hear about because they failed to meet goals laid out in their compensation package Are there any notable examples of a CEO missing a target and getting paid less than they could have?
- mushufasa 5y ago
  It's notable if they meet the targets, not if they miss the targets. So, no, we wouldn't hear about the reverse in the news.
  - throwhauser 5y ago
    Then how do we know this phenomenon exists?
    - mushufasa 5y ago
      Are we asking how do we know when companies fail, or how do we know whether committees set executive compensation based on targets? Executive compensation for public companies is actually public -- shareholders vote on it every year in the proxy filings. This is sometimes called "Say on Pay"
      - gremlinsinc 5y ago
        if a union of worker co-ops were to pool money, buy enough shares in a public company like apple (say 50 billion dollars worth), could they vote on Tim Cook's salary to never exceed 1 million?
        mushufasa 5y ago
        yes. this is actually a very common topic to result in proxy battles around.
tehjoker 5y ago
Did Tim Cook ever design, build, or package any product that apple makes or just tell people what to do?
- mushufasa 5y ago
  Do the product designers mine metal ore?
  - tehjoker 5y ago
    Given the miners do a hugely dangerous job and suffer health effects, one would think they'd be paid more too.
eterm 5y ago
1400 is absurd. 1400 suggest these corporations are far too large. It means that there a tiny elite which have the power to buy out everything away from the worker class, be that essentials like housing or luxuries like concert or sports tickets. If concert tickets were priced by the "free market" alone then typical workers simply would never be able to afford them as evidenced by the amount of scalping that happens. When you have a small powerful elite which can price out the average person from whole markets entirely you have a really broken system.
- laluser 5y ago
  I think the system is somewhat democratic. This is what the board of directors chose as his compensation and they themselves are elected. Remember, that Apple is extremely large. These median salaries probably include retail store employee packages as well. If you look at just engineering, product, design salaries, the x factor here probably comes down to a factor of 10, so 140 instead of 1400.
  - gremlinsinc 5y ago
    why should retail store workers make less than developers? Hours are hours time is time. People should be valued by willingness to work, maybe a small multiplier for a degree, but CEO's definitely need a pay cap, if the max he could earn is say 500x average salary, well guess what if the average salary increases by x percent he could end up making the SAME as he does now, except everybody else makes out like bandits too... or maybe he only makes the equivalent of 1000x now, but still 500x but the average wage is the equivalent where 1000x before is 500x now..etc...
    - laluser 5y ago
      It's a completely different skill that you need to bring to the table. A retail employee just requires a week or so of training vs. a four year college degree (or similar experience) for an engineering job. Similarly, the skill that a good CEO brings to the table is equally as different. The article also mentions that his compensation in 2020 was like 4x lower, so that's interesting.
ipaddr 5y ago
The success at Apple has little to do with Tim Cook and if he was replaced with one of those unsuccessful CEOs they wouldn't lose a beat. Is he worth 1,400x? Let's rephase this... You can have 1,400 Apple employees or Tim Cook.. I would rather have those employees. But maybe Tim can do the work of 1400
- stanmancan 5y ago
  Last time Apple replaced it's CEO with a string of unsuccessful CEO's it ended up on the brink of bankruptcy.
  - ipaddr 5y ago
    You mean the guy who pushed Steve Jobs out or Steve Jobs himself? Getting rid of the founder has huge issues but getting rid of the other CEO happened too late.
  - gremlinsinc 5y ago
    was that before or after they rose from the iphone/ipad era? Apple of 2020 and even 2010 is much different from Apple of 2000 or 1995.
- davidjytang 5y ago
  Apple has 154,000 employees. 1) Let's say we rid Cook and add 1,400 more employees, we would arrive at an Apple with 155,399 employees and no Cook. 2) Let's say we rid 1,400 employees and get another Cook. We would arrive at an Apple with 152,601 employees including an additional Cook. I would argue Apple in either 1) or 2) would have similar outcome for another decade. However 1) would likely support more families. I like 1).
flashgordon 5y ago
Put another way. If there are 10 levels between him and those who are at the lowest level of hierarchy (assuming the median employee is somewhere in the lowest rung of this org tree), this equates to roughly your comp doubling as you get promoted each level. Then is it fair to question whether this ratio of comp between successive levels is ok?

throwhauser 5y ago

> Secondly, for every successful CEO package, there are hundreds of others that you don't hear about because they failed to meet goals laid out in their compensation package Are there any notable examples of a CEO missing a target and getting paid less than they could have?

mushufasa 5y ago
It's notable if they meet the targets, not if they miss the targets. So, no, we wouldn't hear about the reverse in the news.
- throwhauser 5y ago
  Then how do we know this phenomenon exists?
  - mushufasa 5y ago
    Are we asking how do we know when companies fail, or how do we know whether committees set executive compensation based on targets? Executive compensation for public companies is actually public -- shareholders vote on it every year in the proxy filings. This is sometimes called "Say on Pay"
    - gremlinsinc 5y ago
      if a union of worker co-ops were to pool money, buy enough shares in a public company like apple (say 50 billion dollars worth), could they vote on Tim Cook's salary to never exceed 1 million?
      - mushufasa 5y ago
        yes. this is actually a very common topic to result in proxy battles around.

tehjoker 5y ago

Did Tim Cook ever design, build, or package any product that apple makes or just tell people what to do?

mushufasa 5y ago
Do the product designers mine metal ore?
- tehjoker 5y ago
  Given the miners do a hugely dangerous job and suffer health effects, one would think they'd be paid more too.

eterm 5y ago

1400 is absurd. 1400 suggest these corporations are far too large. It means that there a tiny elite which have the power to buy out everything away from the worker class, be that essentials like housing or luxuries like concert or sports tickets. If concert tickets were priced by the "free market" alone then typical workers simply would never be able to afford them as evidenced by the amount of scalping that happens. When you have a small powerful elite which can price out the average person from whole markets entirely you have a really broken system.

laluser 5y ago
I think the system is somewhat democratic. This is what the board of directors chose as his compensation and they themselves are elected. Remember, that Apple is extremely large. These median salaries probably include retail store employee packages as well. If you look at just engineering, product, design salaries, the x factor here probably comes down to a factor of 10, so 140 instead of 1400.
- gremlinsinc 5y ago
  why should retail store workers make less than developers? Hours are hours time is time. People should be valued by willingness to work, maybe a small multiplier for a degree, but CEO's definitely need a pay cap, if the max he could earn is say 500x average salary, well guess what if the average salary increases by x percent he could end up making the SAME as he does now, except everybody else makes out like bandits too... or maybe he only makes the equivalent of 1000x now, but still 500x but the average wage is the equivalent where 1000x before is 500x now..etc...
  - laluser 5y ago
    It's a completely different skill that you need to bring to the table. A retail employee just requires a week or so of training vs. a four year college degree (or similar experience) for an engineering job. Similarly, the skill that a good CEO brings to the table is equally as different. The article also mentions that his compensation in 2020 was like 4x lower, so that's interesting.

ipaddr 5y ago

The success at Apple has little to do with Tim Cook and if he was replaced with one of those unsuccessful CEOs they wouldn't lose a beat. Is he worth 1,400x? Let's rephase this... You can have 1,400 Apple employees or Tim Cook.. I would rather have those employees. But maybe Tim can do the work of 1400

stanmancan 5y ago
Last time Apple replaced it's CEO with a string of unsuccessful CEO's it ended up on the brink of bankruptcy.
- ipaddr 5y ago
  You mean the guy who pushed Steve Jobs out or Steve Jobs himself? Getting rid of the founder has huge issues but getting rid of the other CEO happened too late.
- gremlinsinc 5y ago
  was that before or after they rose from the iphone/ipad era? Apple of 2020 and even 2010 is much different from Apple of 2000 or 1995.
davidjytang 5y ago
Apple has 154,000 employees. 1) Let's say we rid Cook and add 1,400 more employees, we would arrive at an Apple with 155,399 employees and no Cook. 2) Let's say we rid 1,400 employees and get another Cook. We would arrive at an Apple with 152,601 employees including an additional Cook. I would argue Apple in either 1) or 2) would have similar outcome for another decade. However 1) would likely support more families. I like 1).

flashgordon 5y ago

Put another way. If there are 10 levels between him and those who are at the lowest level of hierarchy (assuming the median employee is somewhere in the lowest rung of this org tree), this equates to roughly your comp doubling as you get promoted each level. Then is it fair to question whether this ratio of comp between successive levels is ok?