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I'll approach this from a different perspective, in the last 20 years can pro-higher tax proponents provide proof of a single program that actually improved the

I'll approach this from a different perspective, in the last 20 years can pro-higher tax proponents provide proof of a single program that actually improved the quality of life of US citizens in the middle class? I suspect, many will spring up and suggest Obama Care, but where is the data to support this? I know myself and my families health insurance continues to rise and rise (self employed). My mother is on Medicare and pays absurd prices for her diabetes medication and testing equipment (smart device). Democrats continue to fail to address the costs of medical care for middle class and even upper middle class. There are programs for low-income but once you reach middle class levels all these programs no longer qualify. We all work hard for our money (ok maybe not all), but my mentality is let me accumulate as much wealth as I can (I'm better at investing and returning yield on money) in my younger years. I'll make the decisions which programs/charities and people I wish to support.

lostcolony 5y ago
So what you're saying is "because I personally don't see the benefit, I don't want the rich to be taxed higher", and for some reason are conflating your middle class income with that of the uberrich? I don't think anyone is suggesting "Hey, let's increase taxes on those making under a million a year". But there is no good reason that the people making a billion a year are paying the same 37% as the people making $600k.
- nodesocket 5y ago
  Except that's not what is being proposed (they claim their tax hikes only affects the ultra rich which is patently false). Also, I am not middle class, and I plan and have goals to continue to make more income and grow my wealth for myself and my family. Biden's plan to eliminate capital gains or increase it is bad for everybody and investment and growth. The income cap to be able to contribute to roth-ira (tax free growth) is absurd. Everybody should be able to contribute the maximum to a roth regardless of income. Ok, I'll do back door conversion or mega backdoor (Biden plan calls for elimination of back door conversions). There is a war on wealth, and it's not just against billionaires. This is just what they want you to believe.
  - lostcolony 5y ago
    Okay, so you're asking for examples of improvements to the middle class, because you don't see them...and that's coming from a place of legitimately not knowing what it's like to be middle class. Fair enough then. The income cap to be able to contribute to a Roth IRA is indeed absurd, but has also been around for a long time; that's not a Biden thing. Biden's plan isn't to eliminate capital gains (what even...), but to tax it as income for those making over a million; while certainly debatable, that doesn't equate to "bad for everybody and investment and growth" without, you know, some sort of argument as to why (trickle down economics maybe? :P) There is a war on wealth - really? An increase of 2.6% on dollars earned above $539,900 (higher if filing jointly). Yes, that's clearly a war on wealth; clearly, that's going to make everyone destitute.
abeppu 5y ago
I think now is a really hard time to ask "what have my tax dollars gotten me?" - We all got free vaccines, produced in record time. - A lot of people are getting the child tax credit. - A lot of people got extended or expanded unemployment benefits. - Some jobs were sustained by PPP funding. - A lot of people were able to stay in their homes both because of eviction moratoriums and rent repayment programs. - Literal military personnel were setting up and staffing hospitals. Sure, you might say, but all these things are temporary responses to a short-term-ish crisis. And that's true; and that's also partly what the state is for, right? But in normal times, I was raised middle class and: - I went to 3 public schools and a state university - Growing up my parents regularly took me to the public library. I later became a volunteer there. - When I commuted daily, it was on public transit. - I backpack in USFS wilderness zones. I maintain a plot at a community garden managed by my city's parks department. When it's sunny I run through a park with a literal polo field. - When I am choking on wildfire smoke, I know that state and federal firefighters are trying to control it. - I haven't had the time yet, but I want to take free Spanish classes at my city's community college. - I drink clean municipal tap water and flush into a municipal sewer. - And basically every item I've bought has traveled over public roads, bridges, etc, which I navigate with GPS. I'm not saying we get a good deal. Public spending is often laughably inefficient or downright corrupt. But to pretend one doesn't benefit at all seems like it's failing to notice a lot of the fabric of our world, or appreciate how much worse it could be.

lostcolony 5y ago

So what you're saying is "because I personally don't see the benefit, I don't want the rich to be taxed higher", and for some reason are conflating your middle class income with that of the uberrich? I don't think anyone is suggesting "Hey, let's increase taxes on those making under a million a year". But there is no good reason that the people making a billion a year are paying the same 37% as the people making $600k.

nodesocket 5y ago
Except that's not what is being proposed (they claim their tax hikes only affects the ultra rich which is patently false). Also, I am not middle class, and I plan and have goals to continue to make more income and grow my wealth for myself and my family. Biden's plan to eliminate capital gains or increase it is bad for everybody and investment and growth. The income cap to be able to contribute to roth-ira (tax free growth) is absurd. Everybody should be able to contribute the maximum to a roth regardless of income. Ok, I'll do back door conversion or mega backdoor (Biden plan calls for elimination of back door conversions). There is a war on wealth, and it's not just against billionaires. This is just what they want you to believe.
- lostcolony 5y ago
  Okay, so you're asking for examples of improvements to the middle class, because you don't see them...and that's coming from a place of legitimately not knowing what it's like to be middle class. Fair enough then. The income cap to be able to contribute to a Roth IRA is indeed absurd, but has also been around for a long time; that's not a Biden thing. Biden's plan isn't to eliminate capital gains (what even...), but to tax it as income for those making over a million; while certainly debatable, that doesn't equate to "bad for everybody and investment and growth" without, you know, some sort of argument as to why (trickle down economics maybe? :P) There is a war on wealth - really? An increase of 2.6% on dollars earned above $539,900 (higher if filing jointly). Yes, that's clearly a war on wealth; clearly, that's going to make everyone destitute.

abeppu 5y ago

I think now is a really hard time to ask "what have my tax dollars gotten me?" - We all got free vaccines, produced in record time. - A lot of people are getting the child tax credit. - A lot of people got extended or expanded unemployment benefits. - Some jobs were sustained by PPP funding. - A lot of people were able to stay in their homes both because of eviction moratoriums and rent repayment programs. - Literal military personnel were setting up and staffing hospitals. Sure, you might say, but all these things are temporary responses to a short-term-ish crisis. And that's true; and that's also partly what the state is for, right? But in normal times, I was raised middle class and: - I went to 3 public schools and a state university - Growing up my parents regularly took me to the public library. I later became a volunteer there. - When I commuted daily, it was on public transit. - I backpack in USFS wilderness zones. I maintain a plot at a community garden managed by my city's parks department. When it's sunny I run through a park with a literal polo field. - When I am choking on wildfire smoke, I know that state and federal firefighters are trying to control it. - I haven't had the time yet, but I want to take free Spanish classes at my city's community college. - I drink clean municipal tap water and flush into a municipal sewer. - And basically every item I've bought has traveled over public roads, bridges, etc, which I navigate with GPS. I'm not saying we get a good deal. Public spending is often laughably inefficient or downright corrupt. But to pretend one doesn't benefit at all seems like it's failing to notice a lot of the fabric of our world, or appreciate how much worse it could be.