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Did I miss something or did this article never define what it means by: >We Should Fund Students The article bags on public school systems, but I don't see an

Did I miss something or did this article never define what it means by: >We Should Fund Students The article bags on public school systems, but I don't see any alternatives being suggested. Overall this looks to be a propaganda article by a libertarian think tank that is all fluff but no substance.

notch656a 5y ago
It's all there for you, you were just too lazy to find it Another national survey conducted by Ed Choice found that support for four types of school choice — education savings accounts, tax-credit scholarships, vouchers, and charter schools — all surged between the spring and fall of 2020. The same survey also found that 86 percent of parents with school-aged children now support funding students directly through education savings accounts. Education savings account initiatives would allow families to use a portion of their children’s K-12 education dollars to cover the costs of approved education providers, including private schooling, homeschooling, micro-schooling, pandemic pods, tutoring, and special needs services.
- DerArzt 5y ago
  I did see that, but I wouldn't call sighting survey results a call to action.
bsder 5y ago
This is effectively the usual "Let the charter system cherry-pick the good students and slag everybody else onto the public system." This is "indemnity plan" vs HMO healthcare problem all over again. HMOs look really good while most people are on indemnity plans. The problem is that the more people wind up on HMOs, the more the expensive people wind up on the fewer indemnity plans. Eventually, the indemnity plans collapse and now the HMOs have to deal with everybody. And suddenly everybody is worse off because the HMOs were set up to bleed money out of the system in profit rather than simply cover people's healthcare. The problem is the HN contingent always thinks that they won't be the ones with the child stuck in the public system. And that's probably mostly true--until they have the child with the behavioral problem, the learning disability, or the bad luck to get caught up in a disciplinary mess and now they are barred from these better schools. Then ... EPIPHANY! ... Magically they realize that things are so horribly, terribly unfair.
- notch656a 5y ago
  Ok so eliminate the public system then, if it can't deal appropriately with the rest of the students. We shouldn't pay for a system if it can't educate the students that are there.
  - bsder 5y ago
    "Our mental health institutions aren't working, so let's just close them all!" Shall I point out how well that worked? Scrapping a public system doesn't magically make things better.
    - notch656a 5y ago
      You were the ones alluding they weren't going to work, not I. Saying a child is "stuck" there isn't exactly a glowing review. I just said if they don't work we shouldn't be paying for them.
      - bsder 5y ago
        They're "stuck" once the "charter schools" get done sucking up all the "easy to teach" students. This occurs over and over and over. "Hey, this charter school is better than the public school." "Great! Let's randomize students by lottery and send them to charter or public school." "Whoops! The charter school doesn't look so good anymore now that they can't choose their students." Nobody has demonstrated better results than our public system without either filtering students or by spending a lot more money. Which is sad because I do believe that we can do better than the current system. Learning pedagogy is understood MUCH better than it was 100 years ago. However, when you attempt to improve something, look at the backlash that appears (see: Common Core).
        notch656a 5y ago
        >Nobody has demonstrated better results than our public system without either filtering students or by spending a lot more money. Could you produce a citation please? I've been under the impression that several countries are beating US in public education ROI, but since I don't have that source off hand and you've already made the assertion I'll go ahead and let you fill the burden of proof here. Are you basically saying no (similar cost) private school beats the public system because by definition they can pick which student they have so they can't possibly beat a public system without filtering? There has to be some (similar cost) private school out there that could beat the average public school even unfiltered; these seems like a pretty tall claim to make.

notch656a 5y ago

It's all there for you, you were just too lazy to find it Another national survey conducted by Ed Choice found that support for four types of school choice — education savings accounts, tax-credit scholarships, vouchers, and charter schools — all surged between the spring and fall of 2020. The same survey also found that 86 percent of parents with school-aged children now support funding students directly through education savings accounts. Education savings account initiatives would allow families to use a portion of their children’s K-12 education dollars to cover the costs of approved education providers, including private schooling, homeschooling, micro-schooling, pandemic pods, tutoring, and special needs services.

DerArzt 5y ago
I did see that, but I wouldn't call sighting survey results a call to action.

bsder 5y ago

This is effectively the usual "Let the charter system cherry-pick the good students and slag everybody else onto the public system." This is "indemnity plan" vs HMO healthcare problem all over again. HMOs look really good while most people are on indemnity plans. The problem is that the more people wind up on HMOs, the more the expensive people wind up on the fewer indemnity plans. Eventually, the indemnity plans collapse and now the HMOs have to deal with everybody. And suddenly everybody is worse off because the HMOs were set up to bleed money out of the system in profit rather than simply cover people's healthcare. The problem is the HN contingent always thinks that they won't be the ones with the child stuck in the public system. And that's probably mostly true--until they have the child with the behavioral problem, the learning disability, or the bad luck to get caught up in a disciplinary mess and now they are barred from these better schools. Then ... EPIPHANY! ... Magically they realize that things are so horribly, terribly unfair.

notch656a 5y ago
Ok so eliminate the public system then, if it can't deal appropriately with the rest of the students. We shouldn't pay for a system if it can't educate the students that are there.
- bsder 5y ago
  "Our mental health institutions aren't working, so let's just close them all!" Shall I point out how well that worked? Scrapping a public system doesn't magically make things better.
  - notch656a 5y ago
    You were the ones alluding they weren't going to work, not I. Saying a child is "stuck" there isn't exactly a glowing review. I just said if they don't work we shouldn't be paying for them.
    - bsder 5y ago
      They're "stuck" once the "charter schools" get done sucking up all the "easy to teach" students. This occurs over and over and over. "Hey, this charter school is better than the public school." "Great! Let's randomize students by lottery and send them to charter or public school." "Whoops! The charter school doesn't look so good anymore now that they can't choose their students." Nobody has demonstrated better results than our public system without either filtering students or by spending a lot more money. Which is sad because I do believe that we can do better than the current system. Learning pedagogy is understood MUCH better than it was 100 years ago. However, when you attempt to improve something, look at the backlash that appears (see: Common Core).
      - notch656a 5y ago
        >Nobody has demonstrated better results than our public system without either filtering students or by spending a lot more money. Could you produce a citation please? I've been under the impression that several countries are beating US in public education ROI, but since I don't have that source off hand and you've already made the assertion I'll go ahead and let you fill the burden of proof here. Are you basically saying no (similar cost) private school beats the public system because by definition they can pick which student they have so they can't possibly beat a public system without filtering? There has to be some (similar cost) private school out there that could beat the average public school even unfiltered; these seems like a pretty tall claim to make.