4 ms·

I hope Kaiser Permanente lobbies this or we can opt out. I've lived in many states and my exp with Kaiser in California is among the best. I don't see the state

I hope Kaiser Permanente lobbies this or we can opt out. I've lived in many states and my exp with Kaiser in California is among the best. I don't see the state (especially bloated California) doing better. (I pay out of pocket via a side business, not from my current employer.)

dillondoyle 5y ago
I personally love kaiser but I know others who strongly disagree. Maybe it would be a good idea to lean on the better insurance companies (are there more than kaiser?) to administer. Personally I think there needs to be stronger regulation so that they can still make some profit (not obscene) for incentive to get more efficient, while regulating they can't take that profit at the expense of patients & access to care.
jjav 5y ago
Kaiser posted $3B in profits in a quarter. All that money is overhead that can be removed from the costs if health care didn't have to funnel through a private company taking profits from it. https://www.fiercehealthcare.com/hospitals/kaiser-permanente-posts-3b-profits-q2-as-membership-health-plan-increases https://www.fiercehealthcare.com/hospitals/kaiser-permanente...
- devmunchies 5y ago
  Yeah but from an operational POV you should factor in competition, efficiency, etc into overhead and profits. I don’t believe the state would be as concerned about keeping out bloat, so it would accrue a different kind of overhead.
- conanbatt 5y ago
  Profits is not what makes healthcare expensive…
  - jjav 5y ago
    What do you think makes it expensive in the US then? Certainly not the salaries to actual health professionals (doctors, nurses, techs, etc). When you see a doctor for 10 minutes and get billed $400, the vast majority of that money goes all the layers who are extracting their slice of profit from it, only a small bit goes to the doctor.
    - conanbatt 5y ago
      Doc salaries account for 10-20% of national healthcare spending. The us hS one of the lowest per capita counts of doctors in the world and the most expensive education system for them. Single payer does not fix this. The us has the most expensive drug approval process in the world making any drug that goes to market needing high prices to exist. Around 10% of NH spending here.SP does not fix this. Hospitals receive large gov funding, regulatory protection that includes the inability to build or run new or for-profit hospitals, and with the constant moral hazard of running hospitals in the red and getting bailed out. Almost all hospitals are non-profit. About 40% of NH spending. SP makes this even worse by eliminating forever the risk of bankrupcy.
- Sparyjerry 5y ago
  If you had no profit motivation then there is no incentive to do the best and most efficient job. This is why government organizations are always extremely bloated, inefficient, and employees don't care about the service level. It's because a monopoly means you don't have to care about any of that anymore.
  - jjav 5y ago
    The insurance company profit motive only achieves them maximizing their profit margin at all times. Which is done by charging as much as possible and blocking services as much as possible so they don't have to pay.
  - ThePowerOfFuet 5y ago
    Spoken like someone who's never had experience with a public healthcare system anywhere else in the world.
tedyoung 5y ago
> don't see the state (especially bloated California) doing better [than Kaiser Permanente] In what sense? What do you like about KP: the doctors, nurses, etc.? The billing department? Single-payer would not take the staff away. It would get rid of large swathes of the billing department that are pure waste. Not everyone has had your positive experience with KP. We switched away due to lack of availability of certain specialists.
- devmunchies 5y ago
  Operational efficiency. I’d compare it to Amazon vs usps. I pay for Prime which is like paying for Kaiser insurance, Amazon’s fleet is an just extension of Prime membership to improve my experience as a shopper and completely under their control (I can get 3 deliveries in a day on Sunday). USPS is less innovative because they less incentives to “wow” me.

dillondoyle 5y ago

I personally love kaiser but I know others who strongly disagree. Maybe it would be a good idea to lean on the better insurance companies (are there more than kaiser?) to administer. Personally I think there needs to be stronger regulation so that they can still make some profit (not obscene) for incentive to get more efficient, while regulating they can't take that profit at the expense of patients & access to care.

jjav 5y ago

Kaiser posted $3B in profits in a quarter. All that money is overhead that can be removed from the costs if health care didn't have to funnel through a private company taking profits from it. https://www.fiercehealthcare.com/hospitals/kaiser-permanente-posts-3b-profits-q2-as-membership-health-plan-increases https://www.fiercehealthcare.com/hospitals/kaiser-permanente...

devmunchies 5y ago
Yeah but from an operational POV you should factor in competition, efficiency, etc into overhead and profits. I don’t believe the state would be as concerned about keeping out bloat, so it would accrue a different kind of overhead.
conanbatt 5y ago
Profits is not what makes healthcare expensive…
- jjav 5y ago
  What do you think makes it expensive in the US then? Certainly not the salaries to actual health professionals (doctors, nurses, techs, etc). When you see a doctor for 10 minutes and get billed $400, the vast majority of that money goes all the layers who are extracting their slice of profit from it, only a small bit goes to the doctor.
  - conanbatt 5y ago
    Doc salaries account for 10-20% of national healthcare spending. The us hS one of the lowest per capita counts of doctors in the world and the most expensive education system for them. Single payer does not fix this. The us has the most expensive drug approval process in the world making any drug that goes to market needing high prices to exist. Around 10% of NH spending here.SP does not fix this. Hospitals receive large gov funding, regulatory protection that includes the inability to build or run new or for-profit hospitals, and with the constant moral hazard of running hospitals in the red and getting bailed out. Almost all hospitals are non-profit. About 40% of NH spending. SP makes this even worse by eliminating forever the risk of bankrupcy.
Sparyjerry 5y ago
If you had no profit motivation then there is no incentive to do the best and most efficient job. This is why government organizations are always extremely bloated, inefficient, and employees don't care about the service level. It's because a monopoly means you don't have to care about any of that anymore.
- jjav 5y ago
  The insurance company profit motive only achieves them maximizing their profit margin at all times. Which is done by charging as much as possible and blocking services as much as possible so they don't have to pay.
- ThePowerOfFuet 5y ago
  Spoken like someone who's never had experience with a public healthcare system anywhere else in the world.

tedyoung 5y ago

> don't see the state (especially bloated California) doing better [than Kaiser Permanente] In what sense? What do you like about KP: the doctors, nurses, etc.? The billing department? Single-payer would not take the staff away. It would get rid of large swathes of the billing department that are pure waste. Not everyone has had your positive experience with KP. We switched away due to lack of availability of certain specialists.

devmunchies 5y ago
Operational efficiency. I’d compare it to Amazon vs usps. I pay for Prime which is like paying for Kaiser insurance, Amazon’s fleet is an just extension of Prime membership to improve my experience as a shopper and completely under their control (I can get 3 deliveries in a day on Sunday). USPS is less innovative because they less incentives to “wow” me.