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That's not good. But sorry, I don't buy the "upstanding citizens revolt because gas prices went up" narrative that the major news networks are proposing. The re

That's not good. But sorry, I don't buy the "upstanding citizens revolt because gas prices went up" narrative that the major news networks are proposing. The real question is; what foreign powers are instigating riots in Kazakhstan, and why. That many people have been discontent with an autocratic regime is no longer enough for me to applaud the possible creation of yet another failed state.

wyre 5y ago
There were gigantic protests in France recently for basically the same reason and no one was accusing a foreign power of instigating riots in France. Why would these riots in Kazakhstan be any different?
- foverzar 5y ago
  Media coverage, mostly. Especially one going from the state-owned (or corporate-owned with political affiliation, in case of US) media. It is really the best litmus paper there is.
w0de0 5y ago
How does one "instigate riots"?
- xboxnolifes 5y ago
  The same way intelligence agencies instigate terrorism plots.
  - ralmidani 5y ago
    Terrorist attacks take a few determined individuals, and would be relatively easy to instigate and pull off. But the suggestion that a foreign power can convince thousands of people with no grievances to come out and protest is laughably unrealistic, not to mention insulting.
    - foverzar 5y ago
      All nations have people who have grivances, the trick is to find a proper ignition point and pour in some gas at the right moment. And it's not like it's something momentarlity simplistic, like a terrorist attack. It takes years of builing a foundation.
      - w0de0 5y ago
        Indeed. It's probably the dastardly, competent CIA using innocent people's grievances to keep the Russian nation down. I mean, connect the dots! Ukraine, Belarus, the Baltics, now Kazakhstan? All suspiciously close to Russia. The CIA's sinister color revolution plot advances even as the Americans deny it! Of course, it's an entirely unrelated fact that the collapse of the most recent Russian autocratic empire generated a crop of ethno-national, authoritarian kleptocracies in each polity that failed (...wonder why?) to join the Western alliance yet escaped complete vassalage to Moscow. Unrelated I tell you! All nations have people who have grievances! If the FSB were as evil as the CIA, Canada would be rioting right now! ...Sure, I guess, the CIA could have "instigated" these riots, or acted to exacerbate factionalism within the oligarchy. I doubt it, but I can't deny that a competent intelligence agency could do so. Could do so because the people who "have grievances" are genuinely oppressed: they want freedom, they envy the wealth and liberation of the West. And "they" means a huge majority - not an interest group with a petty grievance, but a _generation_ with a despair of the future. Shitty oppressive evil kingdoms are doomed to fail (one hopes: god help humanity if they figure out how to be stable in perpetuity - none have yet). If the CIA gives them a shove, good for them, means the USA is still the true vanguard of the people's revolution. When the mob brays for regicide the Kazakh kings may only blame themselves.
- stareatgoats 5y ago
  The wikipedia article on the CIA lists several ways that the US has employed over the years [0]. We know about them because of the relative freedom of the press in the west. Similar activities by other powers might not be as widely advertised or as frequent, but they surely exist. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Intelligence_Agency https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Intelligence_Agency
bigodbiel 5y ago
It’s certainly the trigger, and the situation is dire, inflation is sky high in many developing nations. If we aren’t seeing Arab Springs springing everywhere it’s because of covid and restriction (either self or state imposed). As for Kazakhstan, well there’s Chinese, Russian, Turkey and even British as foreign elements. IMO the more plausible reason was the president (Mr Tokaev, aka Number 2 in power) ousting the “Kolbasy” (Mr Nursumbaev, aka First President) who expected the power sharing agreement to give him and his family both protection and relevance over politics forever.

wyre 5y ago

There were gigantic protests in France recently for basically the same reason and no one was accusing a foreign power of instigating riots in France. Why would these riots in Kazakhstan be any different?

foverzar 5y ago
Media coverage, mostly. Especially one going from the state-owned (or corporate-owned with political affiliation, in case of US) media. It is really the best litmus paper there is.

w0de0 5y ago

How does one "instigate riots"?

xboxnolifes 5y ago
The same way intelligence agencies instigate terrorism plots.
- ralmidani 5y ago
  Terrorist attacks take a few determined individuals, and would be relatively easy to instigate and pull off. But the suggestion that a foreign power can convince thousands of people with no grievances to come out and protest is laughably unrealistic, not to mention insulting.
  - foverzar 5y ago
    All nations have people who have grivances, the trick is to find a proper ignition point and pour in some gas at the right moment. And it's not like it's something momentarlity simplistic, like a terrorist attack. It takes years of builing a foundation.
    - w0de0 5y ago
      Indeed. It's probably the dastardly, competent CIA using innocent people's grievances to keep the Russian nation down. I mean, connect the dots! Ukraine, Belarus, the Baltics, now Kazakhstan? All suspiciously close to Russia. The CIA's sinister color revolution plot advances even as the Americans deny it! Of course, it's an entirely unrelated fact that the collapse of the most recent Russian autocratic empire generated a crop of ethno-national, authoritarian kleptocracies in each polity that failed (...wonder why?) to join the Western alliance yet escaped complete vassalage to Moscow. Unrelated I tell you! All nations have people who have grievances! If the FSB were as evil as the CIA, Canada would be rioting right now! ...Sure, I guess, the CIA could have "instigated" these riots, or acted to exacerbate factionalism within the oligarchy. I doubt it, but I can't deny that a competent intelligence agency could do so. Could do so because the people who "have grievances" are genuinely oppressed: they want freedom, they envy the wealth and liberation of the West. And "they" means a huge majority - not an interest group with a petty grievance, but a _generation_ with a despair of the future. Shitty oppressive evil kingdoms are doomed to fail (one hopes: god help humanity if they figure out how to be stable in perpetuity - none have yet). If the CIA gives them a shove, good for them, means the USA is still the true vanguard of the people's revolution. When the mob brays for regicide the Kazakh kings may only blame themselves.
stareatgoats 5y ago
The wikipedia article on the CIA lists several ways that the US has employed over the years [0]. We know about them because of the relative freedom of the press in the west. Similar activities by other powers might not be as widely advertised or as frequent, but they surely exist. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Intelligence_Agency https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Intelligence_Agency

bigodbiel 5y ago

It’s certainly the trigger, and the situation is dire, inflation is sky high in many developing nations. If we aren’t seeing Arab Springs springing everywhere it’s because of covid and restriction (either self or state imposed). As for Kazakhstan, well there’s Chinese, Russian, Turkey and even British as foreign elements. IMO the more plausible reason was the president (Mr Tokaev, aka Number 2 in power) ousting the “Kolbasy” (Mr Nursumbaev, aka First President) who expected the power sharing agreement to give him and his family both protection and relevance over politics forever.