129 ms·

If they want their documents faster they should just pay for it. Requesting 300k+ pages is not a normal request, there is no way all of those pages will be of i

If they want their documents faster they should just pay for it. Requesting 300k+ pages is not a normal request, there is no way all of those pages will be of interest. Pay for it by paying a fee equal to the cost of hiring / training additional personal (https://www.foia.gov/faq.html https://www.foia.gov/faq.html).

encryptluks2 5y ago
So pay for transparency that is already expected? Should you have to pay to get your medical record?
- mike00632 5y ago
  It's asinine to think you have a right to see every document the government has including PII and trade secrets, even worse to base an anti-vaxx effort on such ideas.
  - encryptluks2 5y ago
    It's crazy to me the amount of people that people would blindly trust the same government that did illegal experimentation in the past and gave unsuspecting populations syphilis. Or the same companies that paid billions for lying in the past.
LegitShady 5y ago
Only the rich should get FOIA?
- Arainach 5y ago
  The FOIA should not allow anyone to launch a denial of service attack on the government. The requester can specify the scope or the timeline. Not both. If my employer asked me to review this much content I would also give a timeline on the order of years. Saying "too bad, it has to be faster" doesn't change my estimate.
  - tagoregrtst 5y ago
    DOS attacks were pioneered by progressives in the 60s. We’ve had 60 years to make the system robust to DOD attacks
  - LegitShady 5y ago
    I have no problem with that, but if the paperwork isn’t produced, the FDA can’t enforce or use any of the process for any reason because its not transparent. Take as long as you want, just lose any legal power those documents give you so that you aren’t unjustly using them if there is evidence of some kind of fraud or other issues. Take 100 years, but for those 100 years the paperwork can’t be used with any legal authority because its not transparent. Problem solved.
    - Arainach 5y ago
      That is once again absurd and amounts to a denial of service attack. Reviewing documents for public disclosure, removing PII, etc. is a totally different process from reviewing their accuracy for medical purposes. It takes at least as long, probably longer.
    - jcranmer 5y ago
      Or maybe, if you think the FDA did something wrong, you should have enough of an idea of what it did wrong that you could confirm it by asking for something less than literally everything Pfizer ever submitted to the FDA? If you're asking for that much information, that suggests that you're undertaking a fishing expedition rather than actually substantively accusing the FDA of something wrong.
      - tptacek 5y ago
        Yeah, but you're allowed to fish, even if what you're fishing for is dumb. The obligation is for the government to provide transparency, not for it to proctor investigations.
  - Mountain_Skies 5y ago
    We're spending TRILLIONS of dollars on this pandemic. TRILLIONS! These FOIA requests are not DOS attacks. It's very clear that some are very scared of what these FOIA requests might reveal rather than a concern about the cost of spending 0.000001% of the response budget on it. Why are you personally so scared of what the documents might reveal? It's nothing to do with imaginary DOS attacks.
- lesuorac 5y ago
  Only the rich should be able to make unreasonable requests (its kind of how Capitalism works). One trivial way for a normal person to do this FOIA would be to make a request for the document names that lead to the decision to approve Pfizer's vaccine. Redacting a ~10 word title is going to require way less time than redacting ~300k files. We also already know that the FDA knows what files lead to the decision (~300k) and which they are (cause they're redacting them atm). Once you have this list you can decide which files could help your case and request those. As far as transparency, the FDA didn't just write down two words "Pfizer Approved" they've created document outlining why they approved the vaccine. https://www.fda.gov/emergency-preparedness-and-response/coronavirus-disease-2019-covid-19/comirnaty-and-pfizer-biontech-covid-19-vaccine#additional https://www.fda.gov/emergency-preparedness-and-response/coro...

encryptluks2 5y ago

So pay for transparency that is already expected? Should you have to pay to get your medical record?

mike00632 5y ago
It's asinine to think you have a right to see every document the government has including PII and trade secrets, even worse to base an anti-vaxx effort on such ideas.
- encryptluks2 5y ago
  It's crazy to me the amount of people that people would blindly trust the same government that did illegal experimentation in the past and gave unsuspecting populations syphilis. Or the same companies that paid billions for lying in the past.

LegitShady 5y ago

Only the rich should get FOIA?

Arainach 5y ago
The FOIA should not allow anyone to launch a denial of service attack on the government. The requester can specify the scope or the timeline. Not both. If my employer asked me to review this much content I would also give a timeline on the order of years. Saying "too bad, it has to be faster" doesn't change my estimate.
- tagoregrtst 5y ago
  DOS attacks were pioneered by progressives in the 60s. We’ve had 60 years to make the system robust to DOD attacks
- LegitShady 5y ago
  I have no problem with that, but if the paperwork isn’t produced, the FDA can’t enforce or use any of the process for any reason because its not transparent. Take as long as you want, just lose any legal power those documents give you so that you aren’t unjustly using them if there is evidence of some kind of fraud or other issues. Take 100 years, but for those 100 years the paperwork can’t be used with any legal authority because its not transparent. Problem solved.
  - Arainach 5y ago
    That is once again absurd and amounts to a denial of service attack. Reviewing documents for public disclosure, removing PII, etc. is a totally different process from reviewing their accuracy for medical purposes. It takes at least as long, probably longer.
  - jcranmer 5y ago
    Or maybe, if you think the FDA did something wrong, you should have enough of an idea of what it did wrong that you could confirm it by asking for something less than literally everything Pfizer ever submitted to the FDA? If you're asking for that much information, that suggests that you're undertaking a fishing expedition rather than actually substantively accusing the FDA of something wrong.
    - tptacek 5y ago
      Yeah, but you're allowed to fish, even if what you're fishing for is dumb. The obligation is for the government to provide transparency, not for it to proctor investigations.
- Mountain_Skies 5y ago
  We're spending TRILLIONS of dollars on this pandemic. TRILLIONS! These FOIA requests are not DOS attacks. It's very clear that some are very scared of what these FOIA requests might reveal rather than a concern about the cost of spending 0.000001% of the response budget on it. Why are you personally so scared of what the documents might reveal? It's nothing to do with imaginary DOS attacks.
lesuorac 5y ago
Only the rich should be able to make unreasonable requests (its kind of how Capitalism works). One trivial way for a normal person to do this FOIA would be to make a request for the document names that lead to the decision to approve Pfizer's vaccine. Redacting a ~10 word title is going to require way less time than redacting ~300k files. We also already know that the FDA knows what files lead to the decision (~300k) and which they are (cause they're redacting them atm). Once you have this list you can decide which files could help your case and request those. As far as transparency, the FDA didn't just write down two words "Pfizer Approved" they've created document outlining why they approved the vaccine. https://www.fda.gov/emergency-preparedness-and-response/coronavirus-disease-2019-covid-19/comirnaty-and-pfizer-biontech-covid-19-vaccine#additional https://www.fda.gov/emergency-preparedness-and-response/coro...